Dear Brother Josht,

You Wrote:
The fact that believers will experience glorification does not preclude conditions on this statement. God's promises are not without conditions; Acts 2:21 says that whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. This must of course be understood in the context of the rest of scripture, for not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" shall enter His kingdom. So the fact that we are to be glorified does not negate the condition of persevering in the faith (1 Corinthians 15:1-2) and continuing in the grace of God (Acts 13:43); so this passage does not really prove or disprove eternal security.


I beg to differ. Actually there is no clearer text in all Scripture that proves eternal security, based on [color:red]GOD’s immutable PURPOSE of Conformity to Christ of his Elect. Those whom He justified, These He also Glorified. That means that God has Glorified (aorist(past) tense) those whom HE justified. And we know from Scripture (1 Cor 15:51,52, 54, 1 Thess 4:17, Phil 3:21, Rom 8:29, Eph 5:27) that Glorification means “The attainment of the goal to which the elect of God were predestined in the eternal purpose of the Father and it involves the consummation of the redemption secured and procured by the vicarious work of Christ…the instantaneous change that will take place for the whole company of the redeemed when Christ will come again the second time without sin unto salvation”, as stated by John Murray. Clearly that has not occurred yet, however, it is certain to come. See in the passage it is stated that it IS [color:red]GOD”S purpose that the elect be conformed to the image of God’s son (29). CAN GOD”S PREDESTINATING PURPOSES FAIL???? OF COURSE NOT. We have all shown many scriptures that state that God’s purpose will stand. God is sovereign. The reason why Paul declares it in the aorist is because it is certain. This backs up the idea that in verse 28 that God is working the for the good, for who those He has called…to the purpose of conforming them to the image of Christ. Surely the context bears that glorification is nothing less than conformity to Christ’s image. IT IS GOD”S PLAN. As far as the Scriptures are concerned, IT IS AS GOOD AS DONE. The elect will persevere (this is shown throughout Scripture, which many passsages have been pointed out to you numerous times, in whole threads, but they can be re-iterated if desired). God has planned the END and the MEANS. So your points about persevering do not even begin to overthrow the explicit teaching that Paul ends with after he states [color:red]“What then shall we say to this??? GOD IS FOR US…..NOR ANY CREATED THING, shall be able to separate us from the love of God..” ( see below for more on this). Oh yes, Not every one who says LORD, LORD will enter..for it is shown that there are plenty of goats in the visible church along with the sheep, through the parables & illustration in the gospels. [color:red]BY the way, I’ve yet to find anything on this earth that is NOT CREATED. One of the problems that people have is understanding “the rest of the scripture” and not differentiating between saving faith and dead faith, sheep & goats, invisible & visible church and false professions.

You wrote:
Also, the fact that nothing can separate us from God does not mean that we cannot walk away


See that’s where we differ. You like to use the word PLAIN and not to explain way scriptures. WELL HERE IS A PLAIN AND SIMPLE ANTIDOTE for your response above: THEY WENT out from US , but they WERE Not of US; [color:red]for IF [I repeat empathically IF] they had been of US, they WOULD HAVE remained with US; BUT they WENT OUT, in order [note the cause] that it might be SHOWN THAT THEY WERE NOT Of us. (1 John 2:19). I know I have quoted this before, but it has yet to be answered (see below). So we must ask John why is this?? Why is that the “US” remain true. Just as you yourself stated, They are born again and as the result, they LOVE GOD and BELIEVE in God (1 John 5:1). Note that the GREEK tense of the word, believe in Joh 5:1 is a present participle (which represents a continuous action). Why do true believers continue to Love and believe and not apostate? [color:red]BECAUSE HIS[GOD's] SEED ABIDES in HIM…NO ONE WHO IS BORN OF GOD PRATICIES SIN” (1 John 1:9 ). You can’t get any clearer than that. What is falling away?? isn't that a lifestyle of sinning?? The very point of the Scripture that God's SEED is the main reason why they don't practice a lifestyle of sinning. Thus, I reject your response which, in my view, has not answered the "BECAUSE" of the text. I WILL REPEAT AGAIN: GOD'S (The Father, The Son, & Holy Spirit) PURPOSE CANNOT FAIL. HE HAS PURPOSED HIS ELECT (v34) TO BE CONFROMED TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST.

Also, I have been meaning to ask this question, “Does ‘Eternal Life’ mean “Eternal” or “temporal”??? Jesus’ sheep “HAVE” eternal life.

You wrote:
The statement that God will complete us in Christ is a conditional statement. For while God is not unfaithful to change us from glory to glory, He does not force this change, but requires that one be a willing vessel. 2 Peter 1:5-11 shows that it is possible for a man not be yielded to God so that the Holy Spirit can work the fruits thereof in him. So yes, God does labor faithfully to complete a good work in us, but He will not do so with a hardened heart. But if we open our ears to Him, then we too can have confidence as Paul did in the Philippians, that God will complete His work in us.


See, in Believers, it is GOD who is “AT WORK IN US, [color:red]both to WILL and TO WORK FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE. Believers have “Saving Faith” and saving faith means that they are trusting in God continually, (not just intellectually but as a lifestyle), although not perfectly. Those of true, good ‘soil’ as shown in Jesus Parable of Matthew 13:3-9,19-23 are those who Hear (present participle = continuous hearing) and understand (present participle), who indeed bears fruit. My point is that the true believer continues to bear fruit; his new nature was created to bear fruit & do good works (Eph 2:10). His new nature gives him a desire to do these works [although not perfectly, due to the flesh, the devil, and the world]. Man acts according to his desires/motives. See Pilgrim for great discussion on the will of man. In the Covenant of Grace it is stated “A NEW HEART also will I give you [note recreation/change of the desires is not FORCING]…And I WILL put MY spirit within you, and CAUSE [note this] YOU to WALK in MY STATUES, and YE SHALL KEEP my JUDGMENTS, and do them.” That only confirms what Eph 1 , Romans 8, 9, John 6, John 10, John 17 explicitly state, (mind you, you will not find stronger language in all Scripture of Christ praying for His people). As was the case with Peter, Christ is praying for His people and thus they persevere. The Holy Spirit effectually works in the lives of the believers. Yes, at times we falter and disobey. But that’s when we, AS SONS, are scourged for our good (Heb 12). We loose fellowship, NOT SONSHIP. Ultimately, God’s plan will stand and Christ LOOSES NONE of whom the Father has given Him. By the way, God can work in any heart that He wants to for HIS OWN purpose. Do not the Proverbs state that everyone’s heart is in God’s hand and turns as He wills it. [color:red]The statement of Phil 1:6 is not conditional (you are imposing your theology onto the text)..it is basically a parallel of Romans 8:28-30. That is.. What God starts in believer, He finishes, because it HIS PLAN. Your comments lead to the conclusion that God is somehow unable to complete HIS PLANS and PURPOSES.

Praise be ALONE to the GOD of all Glory and GRACE.
Brother in Christ,
Carlos
(oh by the way, I hope to find some time on Monday or Tuesday to answer your "perseverance" response).

"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)