The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum gives grace to the humble

And you aptly demonstrated your prowess to speak "doubletalk" in the various statements of your reply. Delusion is so hard to escape from, isn't it!

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]But your idea that men are so dead that they cannot respond to God in any way is. You are simply overdrawing an analogy, blah, blah, blah . . .

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To the contrary, I am simply accepting the biblical language in its proper context and thus iterating to you what it is teaching about being "dead in trespasses and sins. (cf. Gen 6:5; 8:21; Eccl 9:3; Jer 17:9 Mk 7:21-23; Jh 3:3, 5, 19; Rom 1:18ff; 8:7, 8; 1Cor 2:14; Eph 2:1-5; 4:17-19; 5:8; Titus 1:15. See also, Jh 8:34, 44; Rom 6:20; 2Tim 2:25, 26; Titus 3:3; 1Jh 3:10; 5:19; et al).

Jesus spoke cogently and clearly when He said, "No man [color:red]CAN (Gk: dunatai) come unto me unless the Father Who sent me [color:red]draw (Gk: elkuw [cf. Jh 18:10; 21:6, 11; Acts 21:30) him." (Jh 6:44)

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[color:"blue"]No, the life ring does not merely aid, but saves a drowning man (and may double as a seat cushion--kidding), it simply requires that the man embrace it. This is a condition, not a double payment.

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You are once again begging the question and assuming that which is not taught in the Scriptures; i.e., that men are merely "drowning", not dead but rather in peril of dying. That's why I rejected and will continue to point out the fallacy of your view. Again, to use your illustration, men are drowned and lying on the bottom of the ocean; dead, lifeless with no desire for rescue nor even life itself. They are "living dead". By inspiration, Moses describes this truth when he wrote of the fall of Adam and the consequences of that fall; Genesis 2:17 (KJV) "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Was the serpent right and God a liar; i.e., that should they eat of the fruit of the tree they would not die? Personally, I'm going to go with what God said and not the "Father of lies" (Jh 8:44). Adam died the very moment he ate of the fruit, yet he continued to live, physically. The perennial problem is that many will not accept the truth of the depth of the noetic effects of the Fall. They simply cannot bear the insult. Man is far worse than he would like to think he is. He is dead not sick, not even terminally ill, but dead. And until he is "quickened, made alive, born again", he is blind, deaf and dumb to his actual, helpless and hopeless condition.

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[color:"blue"]Jonah taught no such thing. While the price of salvation was paid solely by God, we must receive it.

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Funny, my Bible in Jonah 2:9 says, "Salvation is of the LORD." What does your's say? I grant you that "salvation is [color:red]paid solely by God". The ransom has been paid in full. There is nothing more that man need contribute, add, annex, etc. to secure it. The prerequisites of repentance and faith are included in the salvation that was paid for. They are given to those for whom the redemption was made. They are NOT an "extra" which man must bring to the table to facilitate nor complete salvation.

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[color:"blue"]But as I have said before and I will double emphasize here, it is not our choice that saves us, it is God's grace.

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You are once again speaking out of both sides of your mouth. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img] "Faith" is the "work of God." (Jh 6:29)

John 10:26-28 (ASV) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. (cf. Ps 110:3)