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Personally, I don't know if Billy Graham is a Christian. But if he is, it is despite what he teaches.

Tom

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Before we say that someone who belongs to a Christian church (except the Antichrist) is not a Christian, there should be a scriptural excommunication. On Sept. 14, 2001, at a cathedral dedicated to the worship of the Holy Trinity, an Islamic Imam offered prayers to Allah. Rev. Graham, then gave an address in which he failed to point out that Allah is not God but an idol who hears, helps, and saves no one.

Did Rev. Graham's church: Call him to repentance? Revoke his call to publicly preach the gospel? Excommunicate him for syncretism? If none of the above, all Christians should mark and avoid Rev. Graham and his church.

Last edited by speratus; Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:36 AM.
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...was Saul of Tarsus, before he set out for Damascus? ;->


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speratus said: On Sept. 14, 2001, at a cathedral dedicated to the worship of the Holy Trinity, an Islamic Imam offered prayers to Allah.

In addition to the prayers in the name of the Christian God and the Muslim God, President Bush offered prayers in the name of the American civic God:

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On this national day of prayer and remembrance, we ask almighty God to watch over our nation, and grant us patience and resolve in all that is to come. We pray that He will comfort and console those who now walk in sorrow. We thank Him for each life we now must mourn, and the promise of a life to come.

America has turned its back on the First Commandment.

Tom #18820 Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:43 PM
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Tom said:
Personally, I don't know if Billy Graham is a Christian. But if he is, it is despite what he teaches.

Tom
Agreed. Graham of course is more schooled in theological matters than Bush, thus, "personally" you do not know if Bush is a Christian either? Thus, statements such as, "I have reason to believe that Bush isn't a Christian either...." are not "fully supported." But, THIS is NOT even what elections are truly about!

When Paul gave COMMAND by the Holy Spirit to pray for their leaders (for kings, and for all that are in authority) it was with the knowledge that they (the leaders) were NOT Christians (1 Tim 2:1-4). Truly God puts leaders into positions--though He does use the secondary means of elections, et al. to accomplish this. When one votes it is not a matter of voting a "perfect Christian" into office.... you are voting for a person who you believe will best (but, not perfectly) represent your views. Thereafter you are to pray for him, that [you] may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

While this nation has never been Christian, we as Christians and Americans have an obligation to vote for "the best man," but Christ isn't running for office. So it is not the matter of "the right candidate," but "the most right candidate." Thus, simply look at the issues and select he who best supports your views. For instance, look at: (1) the partial birth abortion ban, (2) defense of the marriage act, (3) prohibiting distributing morning after pill to "children" in schools, (4) parental notification for a minor child's abortion, (5) prohibiting taxpayer funding of abortions, (6) and who will appoint pro life judges. Now, someone might get the idea here that one candidate is for murdering children and the other is not. Which is more biblical? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bif.gif" alt="" /> Americans, you as jury members of this nation sit in the juror's box this Tuesday; will you elect a murderer, or desert your duty and remain complacent saying "what will be will be," or stand up and have some backbone on at least one issue?

Is keeping just one baby alive a genuine concern for Christians or have we become mere modern-day Ammonites--offering child sacrifices to the political system of the day? Is it worth your vote or are you so theologically entrenched in your "perfect theology" of your "perfect candidate" that it is not possible for you to really live a Christian life? Everyone, Get Real and Get Out and Vote! (not you Tom, I know you are Canadian).


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Speratus,

Call me a dork, but what was the matter with that prayer?

MHeath #18822 Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:19 PM
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...I'd say it's because it's a nice, vague, all-purpose, one-size-fits-all prayer addressed to a nice, vague, all-purpose, one-size-fits-all deity. It'd be difficult to find anyone who would object to it (barring a flat-out atheist or Satanist).

That's just a guess, however.

I could be very, very wrong.


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speratus said: On Sept. 14, 2001, at a cathedral dedicated to the worship of the Holy Trinity, an Islamic Imam offered prayers to Allah.

This is not just a cathedral...this was at the Washington National Cathedral. For a bit of the history of this cathedral....go here—Washington National Cathedral

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Speratus said:In addition to the prayers in the name of the Christian God and the Muslim God, President Bush offered prayers in the name of the American civic God:

President Bush did not offer any prayers. His were “remarks”....see full text here: Bush’s remarks 09/14/2001

Just a little clarification.

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Joe

If you had read any of my previous messages, you would have noticed that I said if I was American I would be voting for Bush.
By the way when I said "I have reason to believe". I didn't mean I know for sure.

Tom

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DaveVan3 said:

This is not just a cathedral...this was at the Washington National Cathedral. For a bit of the history of this cathedral....go here—Washington National Cathedral

What a marvellous synagogue of Satan it is. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif" alt="" />


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Tom #18826 Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:21 AM
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This little conversation between you and J_Edwards is definitely [Linked Image]

Please let it end here! [Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

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MHeath said:
Speratus,

Call me a dork, but what was the matter with that prayer?

2 Cor. 6:14 tells Christians not to be yoked together with unbelievers. But, President Bush, a professed Christian, and those who prayed and spoke in the name of the Christian God (e.g., Billy Graham) were yoked together at National Cathedral with the unbelievers who prayed in the name of Allah.

Exodus 20:3 says “You shall have no other gods before my face.” But President Bush in his address did not distinguish between the prayers to the Trinity and the prayers to Allah that had proceeded him in worship but instead spoke of unity of faith.

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Today, we feel what Franklin Roosevelt called the warm courage of national unity. This is a unity of every faith, and every background.

President commends prayer in the name of an American civic god who is not the Holy Trinity, a god that encompasses the god of the Muslims. Those who vote for President Bush should do so with the full knowledge that he is urging America to sin.

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Those who vote for President Bush should do so with the full knowledge that he is urging America to sin.

Welcome to humanity. I'll ask you, who is your perfect candidate? What, specifically, has Bush requested of you to sin?

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Today, we feel what Franklin Roosevelt called the warm courage of national unity. This is a unity of every faith, and every background.

A civil unity is not the same as unified universalism. The stand against terrorism is something that crosses over differences in religion to bring all people together against it.


God bless,

william

Last edited by averagefellar; Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:22 AM.
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averagefellar,

I would prefer a candidate who does not mix Christian and pagan worship. I would prefer a candidate who, after Muslim prayer, does not tell the assemblied congregation (and the American people in general) that they pray to "almighty God".

Those who do pray to an almighty God who includes Allah can expect no love, faith, or blessing from Christ. They abide in eternal wrath and damnation.

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Now name that candidate.


God bless,

william

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