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#23921 Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:18 PM
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lazarus Offline OP
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Assuming Romanists don't really pray "to" but "through" Mary and other saints for intercession, believing that all whom have departed earth 'in Christ' are 'alive' (with time/space also having little meaning in heaven)...do they ever pray to OT saints...if not, why not?

Blessings,

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Wes Offline
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Hi Laz,

According to the Roman Catholic church they believe in asking the Saints to pray for them and in fact intercede for them. They recognize that you can go directly to Jesus but they also believe the Saints can intervene too. They believe that "it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us." (Quote from Catholic Library article)

Quote
Praying to the Saints

The historic Christian practice of asking our departed brothers and sisters in Christ—the saints—for their intercession has come under attack in the last few hundred years. Though the practice dates to the earliest days of Christianity and is shared by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, the other Eastern Christians, and even some Anglicans—meaning that all-told it is shared by more than three quarters of the Christians on earth—it still comes under heavy attack from many within the Protestant movement that started in the sixteenth century.



Quote
The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

The above quotes are taken from an article entitled Praying to the Saints


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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But what of the OT saints? I'd actually thought of this myself several weeks ago. Why don't they pray through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jeremiah, David, etc?


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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Quote
SemperReformanda said:
But what of the OT saints? I'd actually thought of this myself several weeks ago. Why don't they pray through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jeremiah, David, etc?
They do pray such as this (long):

Litany to Old Testament Saints

Lord, have mercy on us.
Christ, have mercy on us.
Lord, have mercy on us. Christ, hear us.
Christ, graciously hear us.
God the Father of Heaven, Have mercy on us.
God the Son, Redeemer of the world, Have mercy on us.
God the Holy Spirit, Have mercy on us.
Holy Trinity, One God, Have mercy on us.
God of Abraham, Have mercy on us.
God of Bethel (El Bethel), Have mercy on us.
Mighty One of Jacob, Have mercy on us.
God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Have mercy on us.
God Almighty (El Shaddai), Have mercy on us.
God the Most High (El-Elyon), Have mercy on us.
Yahweh, Have mercy on us.
Archangel Michael, Pray for us.
Archangel Gabriel, Pray for us.
Archangel Raphael, Pray for us.
All you holy angels and archangels, Pray for us.
Noah, Pray for us.
All you holy people before the flood, Pray for us.
Abraham, Pray for us.
Isaac, Pray for us.
Jacob, Pray for us.
Joseph, Pray for us.
All you holy patriarchs, Pray for us.
Aaron, Pray for us.
All you holy priests, Pray for us.
Moses, Pray for us.
Joshua, Pray for us.
All you holy leaders, Pray for us.
David, Pray for us.
All you holy kings, Pray for us.
Job, Pray for us.
Tobit, Pray for us.
All you holy men, Pray for us.
Sarah, Pray for us.
Rebecca, Pray for us.
Rachel, Pray for us.
Miriam, Pray for us.
Deborah, Pray for us.
Ruth, Pray for us.
Hannah, Pray for us.
Judith, Pray for us.
Esther, Pray for us.
All you holy women, Pray for us.
Samuel, Pray for us.
Jeremiah, Pray for us.
Ezekiel, Pray for us.
Daniel, Pray for us.
Malachias, Pray for us.
Elijah, Pray for us.
Elisha, Pray for us.
Isaias, Pray for us.
All you holy prophets, Pray for us.
Abel, Pray for us.
Eleazar, Pray for us.
Ananias, Pray for us.
Azarias, Pray for us.
Misael, Pray for us.
All you holy martyrs and heroic witnesses, Pray for us.
All you holy men and women, Old Testament saints of God,
Make intercession for us.
Be merciful,
Spare us, O Lord.
Be merciful,
Graciously hear us, O Lord.
From all evil, O Lord, deliver us.
From all sin, O Lord, deliver us.
From breaking Your Commandments, O Lord, deliver us.
From falling away from the Faith, O Lord, deliver us.
From doubting Your Word, O Lord, deliver us.
From denying Your Name, O Lord, deliver us.
From fear of proclaiming Your Name, O Lord, deliver us.
From lack of sincere repentance, O Lord, deliver us.
From losing hope, O Lord, deliver us.
From fear of fraternal correction, O Lord, deliver us.
From doubt of Your Power, O Lord, deliver us.
From all false desires, O Lord, deliver us.
From lack of zeal in Your service, O Lord, deliver us.
We sinners, We implore You, hear us.
That we continue to walk by faith, We implore You, hear us.
That we witness to You regardless of human respect, We implore You, hear us.
That we grow in love for Your Holy Word, We implore You, hear us.
That we appreciate the blessing of having children, We implore You, hear us.
That we overcome evil by the power of good, We implore You, hear us.
That we who have more respond more, We implore You, hear us.
That the Jewish nation will recognize You, We implore You, hear us.
That all non-Christians will come to the Light, We implore You, hear us.
That You would give eternal rest to the faithful departed, We implore You, hear us.
That You would grant my special intention, We implore You, hear us.
Lamb of God, Who takes away the sins of the world, Spare us, O Lord.
Lamb of God, Who takes away the sins of the world, Graciously hear us, O Lord.
Lamb of God, Who takes away the sins of the world, Have mercy on us. Amen.


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<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> Gimme a break


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lazarus Offline OP
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thanks all...I appreciate the info....

that list of petitions to saints was quite impressive...

in a cynical sort of way it reminds me of Paul on Mars Hill....wouldn't wanna risk leaving a 'god' out of the mix lest they be offended.

...my bad!

blessings,

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Laz, great to see you again, brother! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, it does remind me of the Mars Hill account!


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin

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