The Highway Forums General Discussion ExCharisma The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

The Holy Spirit certainly illuminates the Scriptures, awakening our hearts and opening our minds (John 6:45, 1st Cor 2:9-12), but new prophetic revelations are not of God. The Bible is not still being written. The gifts of the Spirit had a very specific purpose for a very specific group of people at a very specific time in history.

Several excellent articles demonstrating that can be found here.

-Robin

Robin,

Romans Chapter 8...and specifically verse 2 are full to the brim with references to the Holy Spirit. This chapter is not really about the Gifts of the Spirit, but probably more in line with the fruits of the Spirit as mentioned in Galatians 5:22 against which there is not law, so this LAW is the Spirit's power over sin and death.

Don't bother with any more article references I have 16+ to read now and I don't expect being finished by next year Spring <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

I agree and would never deny this. This is not, however, what the Pentacostals/Charismatics propose. They propose direct and specific revelation from God, outside and separated from the mediation of His words.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Denny,

What exactly does this comment have to do with explaining what Romans 8:2 means. You posts seem to be very vague and right off-topic. Pehaps you might consider starting a thread of your own, where you can grind your axe at the Pope-Charismatics-Pentecostals. I read the mission of this forum and it seems you are making it your private, 'Inquisition'. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps you should have posted your question in another forum as this one is for ex-Charismatics? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Denny,

I have listened to many of Richard Bennett's lectures, and what struck me was that his approach was filled with 'gentleness and respect'. Now if this is only for ex-Charismatics then why would Robin have written this :


Please note that 'Pilgrim' already posted a commentary on page 1, and I reciprocated with another; hoping for an intelligent conversation, but your picture of the Roman Pontiff and earlier comments about 'Charismatics' is not really what I had in mind when I asked my question.

You are right-off topic.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

Richard Bennett is gentle but hardly "respectful" of the RCC. He has dedicated his life in love of the brethren, in an attempt to prevent the lies, distortions of Scripture, and criminal spiritual abuse of the RCC sacramental system.

You may accuse me of being "angry" if you wish but there are gentle souls comming into this forum that do not need to be re-indoctrinated with the Charismatic (unscriptural) emphasis and mysticism of the "Spirit".


I read and was ready to respond to this post before it was edited, and I thank you for reconsidering and making your deletions.

Now, if this post is still vague and off thread, I apologize.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Denny,
When I was eleven, I was taught the Our Father by my Grandmother who was staunch Roman Catholic, my Mother-in-law is staunch Roman Catholic and my wife used to be; so when I say that Richard Bennett is respectful, I mean that he is VERY respectful. In each lecture and especially the one's about the Mass and the Eucherist; his manner is MOST respectful towards those who might be Roman Catholics who are listening. Perhaps that is why he is so used of God in leading Priests and Nuns to Jesus. This is also the manner which is prescribed by Scripture: that we should be always willing to give an account for the hope that is within us, with 'gentleness and respect' --- This after all is the 'law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus' or certainly an aspect to the fruits of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5:22-26.

Perhaps a fitting close to this thread.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


I think you will find my new thread, 'Cameleon' is addressing the rampant effects of 'Mysticism' right across the spectrum of Protestant and Roman Catholic Demoninations. We are probably in the 'sickest' time spiritually ever, when Jesus is ready to spew out the lukewarm. It is time for a call to repentance --- a nice kick-back to my first thread at The-highway.com (Saved an NOT know it ?)

ps. btw. I really liked your quote by Martin Luther.
You just need to remember that Luther was right in the middle of the Apostate Church who believed that the Apocryphal writings, the Canons and writings of the Fathers were also 'the Word of God' --- He needed to draw the line in the sand with a very broad stick. Ofcourse, we can never move forward in our growth without both the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit working in our 'hearts, minds, souls and bodies' --- Explaining this would have been pointless for many of those whom Luther was addressing were not even saved yet. Scripture certainly makes us wise unto salvation, but Jesus did provide something so wonderful for us that the Father gives us.

'If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him ?'

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />

To be completely clear: This is a forum for EX Charismatics - former charismatics who have the courage to question the validity of their former beliefs and yet who have not taken the route taken by many - rejecting Christianity, supposing all Christians to be like the ones they have known. Those who seek to learn the truth only from the Scriptures and not from some "gifted" teacher with some "special anointing" who has some supposed direct hot line to God.

Regarding the original topic, I believe the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus refers to the principle of the justification and sanctification of believers.

Aircraft can fly, not because God repeals or suspends the law of gravity for them, but because a higher law applies, transcending and overpowering gravity. In the same way, the law of sin and death - that which applies to the flesh and is described in Romans chapter 7 - is overcome by the higher law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

"Therefore," Paul writes, "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1), for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has (past tense) set you free from the law of sin and death (verse 2)."

Sanctification is a two-sided coin. In one sense it is an already accomplished fact in the courts of heaven, and in another sense an ongoing process whereby the Holy Spirit applies Christ's finished work to the hearts of His people on earth. Both sides of the coin are described in Romans 6, 7, and 8.

I'm afraid I have no idea what Freud and Jung have to do with it... since Paul is not describing any sort of psychiatric malady or process in his epistle; but rather a spiritual and sovereign work of God.

-Robin

Robin,

Yes, you put it so well. Oh, about Jung and Frued. Well, I guess you will need to read them a little to understand that they were trying to heal 'the mind' of it's many maladies, and along with those were very complex issues to broad for this tiny forum. Jung was a very complex man who wrestled with his own personality as did Frued, and I was drawing a parallel to Paul's cry, "WHO SHALL DELIVER ME FROM THIS BODY OF DEATH ?" --- My point is that if either of these two very intense gentleman had merely opened Romans 8 (or Romans period.) they would have discovered the answer to what tore up their lives in searching to heal what can only be healed by the Gospel. In my first commentary by JFB this was most clearly expressed and many others concur. It is something that drew the full attention of the Apostle Paul, who preached not without the anointing of the Holy Spirit's power and neither should we, or then we should just post up Bible verses, this faith is alive and this Word of Life is living and sharper than any two edged Sword. The Sword of the ........yes, exactly. We cannot divide the Spirit and the Word

Here is yet another puddle of inspiration. Enjoy. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ClapHands.gif" alt="" />

(1 Corinthians 2 : 9 - 16)

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Just a little story to lighten the way.

When I was only nineteen I was living at the YMCA and we used to eat in a dining room together. Students, University students, young men from every walk of life...On one day a young man who had just completed his degree in Psychology joined a friend and myself at the table.

During the discussion I asked him if he knew what it was that seperated people. He was perplexed and shook his head. I was pretty puzzled too, here was this guy who had burned up his credit studying a degree that was to help him heal peoples minds and he did not the most elementary of all puzzles.

I replied, "Sin" and went on to explain to him how sin also seperated us from God.

The next morning as I was preparing to go to work there was a most horrendous banging upon my door. It was this same young man, 'Colin Blake' and when I opened the door I found him standing there beaming from ear to ear.

He had gone to his room that night and opened his old Bible and started trying to find the answers to the questions he did not find a University. That night he went on his knees and asked Christ to forgive him for his sin and to be His Saviour. He had a book in his hand and it was filled with Bible verse that he read to me as he sat on my bed bubbling over with joy.

I have never forgotten that and will never, to see how the Lord gave to a Psychologist the most powerful lesson of all, and it was right there in God's Holy Book.

I have spent some time studying Dr Jay E. Adams' notes and those of Dr. Richard Ganz and it is amazing how the Lord is able to bring healing to so many lives through these men who were once students of Psychology, Psychiatry etc, and the principles were right there in God's Holy Book, no doubt the Holy Spirit did such wonderful work in these men's lives and continues to empower them to be effective in ministry.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" /> goodnight...

The problem is that the church of Sardis (represented by the Reformed church) is diametrically opposed to the church of Pergamos (represented by the Pentecostal church). Only the church of Ephesus (represented by the Independent Fundamental church) is opposed to Pergamos at the same level. The issue is that Sardis tends towards deadness, and Pergamos tends towards the hyper side of life, each of which are totally incompatible with each other, and Christ for that matter.


Wandering a bit here:

If one was to put Christ in the center of a circle and draw the seven churches of Revelation evenly spaced around Him. Starting at 12:00, it would go something like this: Ephesus, Sardis, Smyrna, Philadelphia, Pergamos, Thyatira, and end with Laodicea. This isn’t an absolute for all doctrines, but the ones closer together often times can be more amicable towards the others, whereas those further apart tend to have larger differences.

There are a few people saved in each category, but there are not many saved in any category, except for Philadelphia.

The seven churches are summarized relatively simply but effectively below. Christ has something good to say about all but the last, and a rebuke of some sort for all.

Ephesus- Represented by the Independent Fundamental churches- Can find error well, but have little or lost their love for Christ.

Smyrna- Represented by the church in Communist and other like Countries- Persecuted unto death, need to hold fast the faith unto death

Pergamos-Represented by the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches- Bold, but not discerning and generally relish error

Thyatira-Represented by Episcopal type churches (United, Anglican Etc.)-Good human works, but not for Christ and friendly with Rome (Note: I don't consider Rome to be part of this church, Rome is Jezebel, not Thyatira)

Sardis- Represented by the Reformed churches-Have the truth, but pride in the having of it keeps it from their hearts and most are yet dead

Philidelphia- Represented by brethren wherever they may be-Well done, but need to hold fast the faith

Laodicea- Represented by the New Evangelical (EG Purpose Driven et al) type churches-Nothing good to say about it, the lukewarmness is putrid to Christ.

Each of them has Christ surrounded, but none of them have a lock on the 100% pure doctrine of Christ. It would be wise for us to grow in the commended things, and diminish in the things rebuked.

Some of His sheep can be found to be in each one.

And what is a "direct ministration of the Spirit of God"?

The situation you've described is more accurately called "discerning providence."

Dear Friends,

Despite the fact that forums can tend to be counter-productive and end up being nothing more than a a shredding session where Christians behave more like the pigs and dogs than gentle lambs but I am obligated to offer the best answer to my own question (in my opening post); namely 'What is the LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ? (Please excuse the grammar and spelling, it is morning and I still need that cuppa somethin' right? )

The LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
by Eric J. Sawyer.


Now I am aware that what I am about to write will be less than perfect as it is only a combination of the verses in a sort of a unified consideration, yet I hope that it will be a lightening to the load.

Firstly, it was Jesus who said that we should come unto Him and believe, and both of these factors lead us to a place where we shall never hunger and never thirst. Perhaps a moot point; the Eucharist can never satisfy the eternal longing in the heart for the Spirit of God, which Simeon discovered could not be purchased with money for He is a GIFT.

Secondly, where the Spirit of the Lord is there is LIBERTY. Jesus said, Come unto me ALL ye who are weak and heavy laden and I will give you REST, take my yoke upon me and learn of me, and ye shall find rest to your souls. As the Puritan's have emphasized time and again, all our deepest cries are answered in the Bridegroom. It is the five virgins who trimmed their lamps with that Spirit oil who were ready when the Master returned. We are instructed to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit and this comes about when we ask according to His will and believing we have received not based on any ecstatic feeling or sensation.

Thirdly, (well there were quite a few points above, but nevertheless) let me try to break this down a little more effectively. Each of us has a serious flaw, when we want to do what we know is right, evil is there to make us a slave again to our sinful nature, basically we are quite unable to keep the law of God, even though we have great intentions to do this and will try to turn over a new leaf, start a new chapter and make those resolutions to be a better person, the harder we do try, the more obvious to us it becomes, that though our consciences force us into some pretty amazing religious actions, and noble they may be we cannot fool the Holy Spirit, who convicts us of sin, righteousness and judgment. Sin because we do not believe etc.

Fourthly, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is NOT a list of do's and don'ts though yes the law has many, many do's and don'ts and they are summarized in one do, an that is to love our neighbor as our self and we know that faith works by love, and that this world will know we are his disciples because we have love one to another, but remember that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts quite miraculously by the Holy Spirit. This is how God accomplishes what our consciences cannot all by themselves. He gives us a new heart and mind when we are born again. The idea of waiting in the upper room is not applicable to the believer now, for at the time of coming to faith in Christ we are immediately able to receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit sees that He seals us so, writing upon our hearts and minds God's law, and in simple terms Christ is born within us.

Fifthly, clearly Christ is outside us at the point of first light, and then after we have believed on him for salvation, He breathes upon us like He has always done and though the room may not be shaken, the Spirit who he said would be with us, and He is with us till the end of the world, will now be IN US for Christ IN US is the hope of glory.

Finally, many say well look at those Spirit-filled believers they are no different to us, and in one sense they are perfectly right, because we have a swept our clean, and new room, with nice new furniture, and because we are called NEW CREATIONS we are not altogether different in the sense that we are now super-beings, no we are still able to make all the same mistakes we have made before, but the difference now is that there is someone in us, the Captain of our salvation, and when we do sin, we have a new route to take and that is repentance and then forgiveness and washing us clean, and now that we live according to this new life in Jesus Christ, this new law of life, which is actually His Spirit within us, we are changed from glory to glory, and the changes are permanent, and marvelous and liberating and yes we are His peculiar people zealous of righteousness, and though we fall we have a new law within us that picks us up and causes us to walk as He did, to speak as He did, which will one day transform our lowly substance into that of a glorious son or daughter of God.

I think you will find most of what I have written in the Scriptures and probably some of it is all jumbled but it is what has changed my life completely, yes, Jesus Chris the law of the Spirit of life and we are complete in Him, in whom dwelled ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Amen.

Quite some deep thoughts here my friend. You are quite correct that there will be his sheep in some of the darkest ravines in the History of the Church. Huss, Luther, Calvin, you and me. With Christ in us, the hope of glory, I pray we shall not be ashamed to shine, or hide that light under a bushel (what is a bushel ?)

-straw

John Gill's description of the 'bushel' certainly opens up a new horizon: (So as not to loose the continuity of his thoughts, here is the whole commentary of Matthew 5:15 ('bushel' is also found in Mark 4:21 and Luke 11:33)

John Gill's Commentary of Matthew 5:15

'Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.'


<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" /> (break time) - dunghill ?

The closest way I can describe it is by referring to the moment you learned that you had full assurance of salvation. It was something that prior to that time was unknown, it was revelation by the Spirit of God just to you, and it was not given to anyone else about you, making it a personal, private revelation.

Likewise with much answered prayer, oftentimes the one who prayed is the only one who learns of the answer (personal, private revelation), and has a deeper communion with God through Christ on that account.