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#37175 Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:07 AM
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I'm getting into some contemporary worship and praise music - I like newer renditions of Christians classics.

Specifically I'm getting into 'Redemption Songs' from Jars of CLay. As well as Caedmon's Call who put music to words written by Isaac Watts. I also recently picked up 'City on a Hill' which has worship and praise songs from various contemproary Christian artists. I've been really getting into the new cd by Jeremy Camp as well, which has a hard rock edge to it.

I've always shied away from contemporay worship and praise music but I notice when I listen I feel overcome with feelings of joy, praise, love and gratituide toward Jesus.

Do you guys think it's simply the music that's evoking these feelings? What do you guys think of this type of music - can it enhance our walk with Christ or is it more a hinderance that can produce false feelings or simply work up our emotions.

how about mixing rock music with spiritual themes?

thanks!

Last edited by AJC; Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:31 AM.

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AJC,

1) There are quite a number of threads which have addressed this very controversial issue you can find on the Board.

2) To answer your question about how you "feel" joy, etc., it is the music itself and nothing spiritual about it whatsoever. That type of music is designed to evoke one's emotions, which you may describe in a positive vane, but which is actually worldly and not of the kingdom of Christ.

3) Should you search and find the previous threads here you will also find my position on contemporary music in all its myriad varieties. In sum, it is that such music is not of God, nor acceptable to God and certainly inappropriate for both public worship and one's daily life. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

4) Perhaps it would help to read through some/all of the articles under the heading "Music" and "Worship found here: Ecclesiology - The Doctrine of the Church

In His grace,


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I've always had a thing for catchy, guitar driven music.

But I would never participate in any kind of daily worship that featured that kind of music, but I guess that means I shouldn't listen at home either.

So Pilgrim it seems....

That kind of music is something I should probably give up entirely, right?

It seems like that's what you are saying but I just want to make sure.

Thanks for the feedback, I do really appreciate it!!!

AC

Last edited by AJC; Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:47 PM.

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AC,

[Linked Image] I've been on both "sides" during my lifetime. I've played in symphony orchestras and also had a rock band waaaaaaay back, played in Hollywood etc. So I am a little familiar with musical "styles" and what they can and do to the human psyche. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Another point is that the choosing of music should never be just a matter of "taste" but rather one that is soundly based upon biblical teaching and principle. To date, I have not been able to find not even one reasonable argument that supports the validity of music which is based upon "syncopated beat". I'm mainly concerned with those who profess Christ, although I believe that no one should listen to that type of music period. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />

In the list of articles I referenced, one in particular which you might find helpful is this one: Evaluating Music for Christian Worship and Enjoyment by Leonard J. Seidel. Another which is doubtless provocative due to the hold which R&R music has on people because of its very nature is, Rock 'n' Roll, the Bible, and the Mind, by Tom Allen.

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse"><tr><td><center>[Linked Image]</td></tr><tr><td><table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor="#111111"><tr><td width="100%" background="images/schild.gif"><center><font size="4"><span style="background-color:#0000CC">[color:"white"]ENJOY![/color]</span></font></center></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr><td><center>[Linked Image]</td></tr></table>


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This is not in reply to Pilgim's post or AJC it's just William' 2 cents

I don't want to offend anyone but Gaither music to me seems quite worldly. SAMPLES HERE

I apologize for the advertisements.

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William,

We have several songs in our Celebration Hymnal which Gaither wrote and we sing in our church. I happen to like some of them. May I ask you what makes them seem worldly too you? Is it the words or the music?


Wes


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William said:

I don't want to offend anyone but Gaither music to me seems quite worldly. SAMPLES HERE

I apologize for the advertisements.

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Wes said:
William,

We have several songs in our Celebration Hymnal which Gaither wrote and we sing in our church. I happen to like some of them. May I ask you what makes them seem worldly too you? Is it the words or the music?


Wes

Wes,

Every sample song on the link I provided is man centered and to me the music is lacking only one thing, a glass of champagne. In my OPINION it's night club music. Like I said it's only my opinion and I'm sure many will disagree on this board and abroad.

Perhaps I could listen or sing a few of the songs at home without the sensual bliss as THE LORD knows the heart but they would be difficult to sing in church with that type of music in fact if these songs were wanted by the people (as they usually are in due time) with that type of music I most likely would flee.


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Well, I'm probably going to get myself into hot water here, but I enjoy listening to pop/rock music as music. I don't expect to worship through it, I just enjoy some (certainly not all) rock music for the music the same way I enjoy some classical and some jazz. I've never been a big fan of Christian Comtemporary Music in church or out. But my son has a Third Day CD which I enjoy in pretty much the same way I enjoy my old Beatles tapes. (Excuse me, but your age is showing!)

Granted, if drug use, immorality or ungodliness is overtly glorified, which is often the case, then I draw the line.

Add my 2¢ which makes a total of 4¢ now.

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Quote
William said:

Every sample song on the link I provided is man centered and to me the music is lacking only one thing, a glass of champagne. In my OPINION it's night club music. Like I said it's only my opinion and I'm sure many will disagree on this board and abroad.

Perhaps I could listen or sing a few of the songs at home without the sensual bliss as THE LORD knows the heart but they would be difficult to sing in church with that type of music in fact if these songs were wanted by the people (as they usually are in due time) with that type of music I most likely would flee.


When it comes to music many people find fault with various types for various reasons. You certainly have a right to your opinion. However, I think you'll find many of Gaither's songs will stand the test of time along with some of the other contemporary writers of our day. He has written many songs that are very God centered and Scriptural. Perhaps those that fall into the category you dislike will soon pass away. The link you've provided is only one of his albums.

I have strong feelings against many contemporary artists who sing songs that are sensual and nothing more than rock music with some Christian lyrics. I don't think Gaither falls into that camp.


Wes


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Reply to Wes,

Wes your someone on this board whom I respect. I read all your post’s and feel you’re a man with a thoughtful and caring heart, so before this discussion drags on and on (like the TBN thread) I just want to say, May the Lord bless all you do that pleases Him.

May God Bless,
William

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William,

I agree and thank you for your kind words. May the Lord bless you as well.


Wes <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


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thanks Pilgrim - is there any contemprorary music out there at all you can recommend - let's say even the last century?

Christian or even Secular

Last edited by AJC; Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:06 AM.

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AJC said:
thanks Pilgrim - is there any contemporary music out there at all you can recommend - let's say even the last century?

Christian or even Secular
I'm sure there must be a few which would meet the Bible's criteria of acceptable music and lyrics, but I cannot think of any off the top of my shiny head. It may be true that my cart blanc dismissal/rejection of ALL modern contemporary music will include the rare few which are good. But I would rather miss out on a handful of good songs than bring into the worship of God or my own personal life music which is an affront to God or even blasphemous.

Rather than asking, "Do you like this or that song and/or composer (term used very loosely), one should be asking, Can the music and lyrics stand up to biblical scrutiny? The Bill Gaither's, CCM "artists" (oxymoron), et al cannot pass the test, IMHO. I don't care if someone likes these things or not. In fact, when someone says, "I really like that song!", what they are telling me is that they are emotionally captivated by the music, which immediately makes both the music and that person's discernment suspect.

Okay.... I am sorely tempted to go on a tirade here and post many, many ways a professing Christian could evaluate "music", but I shall not. I am afraid my passions which run hotly against contemporary forms of music, more specifically ALL and ANY that incorporate a syncopated beat probably exceeds the passions of those who are ensnared and blinded by it and try to defend it. The bottom line for me is that old principle, You cannot baptize sin and then incorporate it into the church as something sacred. Sin is sin and it must be put off, left behind, removed from one's life.

Spurgeon faced the same threat to God's sacred worship in his day, although the situation in our day far exceeds perhaps that which even Spurgeon could have imagined. And to this situation he wrote: (see also by Spurgeon, No Compromise)


Feeding Sheep or Amusing Goats?

An evil is in the professed camp of the Lord, so gross in its impudence, that the most short-sighted can hardly fail to notice it. During the past few years it has developed at an abnormal rate, even for evil It has worked like leaven until the whole lump ferments. The devil has seldom done a cleverer thing than hinting to the Church that part of their mission is to provide entertainment for the people, with a view to winning them. From speaking out as the Puritans did, the Church has gradually toned down her testimony, then winked at and excused the frivolities of the day. Then she tolerated them in her borders. Now she has adopted them under the plea of reaching the masses.

My first contention is that providing amusement for the people is nowhere spoken of in the Scriptures as a function of the Church. If it is a Christian work why did not Christ speak of it? "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." That is clear enough. So it would have been if he had added, ‘and provide amusement for those who do not relish the gospel.’ No such words, however, are to be found. It did not seem to occur to him. Then again, "He gave some apostles, some prophets, some pastors and teachers, for the work of the ministry." Where do entertainers come in? The Holy Spirit is silent concerning them. Were the prophets persecuted because they amused the people or because they refused? The concert has no martyr roll.

Again, providing amusement is in direct antagonism to the teaching and life of Christ and all His apostles. What was the attitude of the Church to the world? "Ye are the salt," not the sugar candy —something the world will spit out, not swallow. Short and sharp was the utterance, "Let the dead bury their dead." He was in awful earnestness!

Had Christ introduced more of the bright and pleasant elements into his mission, he would have been more popular when they went back, because of the searching nature of his teaching. I do not hear him say, ‘Run after these people, Peter, and tell them we will have a different style of service tomorrow, something short and attractive with little preaching. We will have a pleasant evening for the people. Tell them they will be sure to enjoy it. Be quick, Peter, we must get the people somehow?’ Jesus pitied sinners, sighed and wept over them, but never sought to amuse them. In vain will the Epistles be searched to find any trace of the gospel of amusement. Their message is, ‘Come out, keep out, keep clean out!’ Anything approaching fooling is conspicuous by its absence. They had boundless confidence in the gospel and employed no other weapon. After Peter and John were locked up for preaching, the Church had a prayer meeting, but they did not pray, ‘Lord grant unto thy servants that by a wise and discriminating use of innocent recreation we may show these people how happy we are.’ If they ceased not for preaching Christ, they had not time for arranging entertainments. Scattered by persecution, they went everywhere preaching the gospel. They ‘turned the world upside down’. that is the only difference! Lord, clear the Church of all the rot and rubbish the devil has imposed on her and bring us back to apostolic methods.

Lastly, the mission of amusement fails to effect the end desired. It works havoc among young converts. Let the careless and scoffers, who thank God because the Church met them half-way, speak and testify. Let the heavy laden who found peace through the concert not keep silent! Let the drunkard to whom the dramatic entertainment had been God’s link in the chain of the conversion, stand up! There are none to answer. The mission of amusement produces no converts. The need of the hour for today's ministry is believing scholarship joined with earnest spirituality, the one springing from the other as fruit from the root. The need is biblical doctrine, so understood and felt, that it sets men on fire.
__________________________________

(selection taken from "No Compromise")

This is the suggestion of the present hour: If the world will not come to Jesus....Shall not the church go down to the world? Instead of bidding men to be converted, and come out from among sinners, and be separate from them, let us join with the ungodly world, enter into union with it, and so pervade it with our influence by allowing it to influence us. Let us have a Christian world.

Certain ministers are treacherously betraying our holy religion under pretense of adapting it to this present age. The new plan is to assimilate the church to the world by semi-dramatic performances they make the house of prayer to approximate to the theater; they turn their services into musical displays in fact, they exchange the temple for the theater, and turn the ministers of God into actors, whose business it is to amuse men. This then is the proposal. In order to win the world, the Lord Jesus must conform himself, his people, and his Word to the world. I will not dwell on so loathsome a proposal.

My dear hearers, how much I long to see you saved!! But I would not belie my Lord, even to win your souls, if they could be won so. The true servant of God is not responsible for success or non-success. Results are in God's hands.


In His grace,


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I just removed about 75% of the music from my i-pod, especially much of the music that would fit into the 'rock' category.

I'll keep praying for the strength to let go of any selfish pleasures that occupy my time, mind & heart.

Thanks for the much needed clarification on this matter!


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Celebration Hymnal?

I personally have a great dislike for that hymnal, if it's the one I am thinking of. Maybe it's because it reminds me of my Disciples of Christ days. For one, they completely destroy the whole point of God Moves in a Mysterious Way by editing it.

I thought you used the Trinity?


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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