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#43145 Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 330
Johan Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 330
I would like to hear your views on what is called "Relational Truth" as described HERE and HERE.. The issue of relationships is currently the in thing in our congregation and to some extent it seems
to me that it links to "Relational Truth". One can also find numerous other links to "Relational Theology" on Google.


Joined: Apr 2001
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Ah, another subtle deceit from our arch enemy, Satan. igiveup

From here:

It is not possible to truly know another without loving them. Truth then cannot be separated from love.
The author has it reversed... It is impossible to love someone without first knowing them. And to know someone first requires you know facts about them. This is one of the primary purposes of Scripture, i.e., God's self-revelation. As Paul tells us in Romans 1, even the general revelation reveals God's 'eternal deity and godhead'; propositional truth, but this only leads to damnation since it only shows God's wrath against sinful mankind. Special revelation, the Bible, is most necessary to lead to reconciliation with God because it further reveals far more about who God is and what is required to be reconciled to Him; propositional truth. Without propositional truth there can be no "relationship".

Without denying the reality of absolute truth, on a far deeper level we need to recognize that Truth is at its very core relational, and when the one who is Truth came among us it was in order to seek relationship. In other worlds, truth must be the servant of love.
But here he does exactly what he says he does not do; deny absolute truth by making it transient... relational, i.e., from man's perspective which is 1) unreliable since man is fallen and thus has a fallible mind and heart. And, 2) man is 'fickle' in his relationships, i.e., his emotive part also affected by the Fall is based upon wrong motives, desires and inclinations. The last statement is the same as #1, reversed. Love must be the servant of truth for only by knowing propositional truth can one truly love. Love is emotive... truth is that which defines what love is and how it is to be expressed.

Truth is not an abstract fact, it is a living Someone. Jesus said "I am the Truth". That means Truth is alive and relational. Truth is loving and life-giving. Truth is transformative and reconciling. Truth is love, and what is unloving and life-sucking simply is not truth.
Again, he denies that truth is "fact"... "abstract fact". Does this mean that before God created anything that Who He is untrue or that there is nothing to be known about God since there was no mankind to love? Jesus also said, "Sanctify them in thy truth. Thy Word is truth." (Jh 17:17) Christ was not referring to Himself as the "Word" but to the objective revelation of God, the Scriptures. The Scripture itself in myriad places exalts itself as truth and propositional, e.g., Jh 8:32 (cf. Jh 6:35; 16:13; Ps 25:5; 119:45; Prov 2:1-7; Isa 2:3; 30:21; 35:8; Jer 6:16; 2Tim 2:25, 26; Jam 1:25)

From here:

Both of these uses of the term "salvation" are legitimate, the Protestant "getting saved" type and the Orthodox "work out your salvation" (Phil 2:12) variety. But since one side is speaking about justification/regeneration (the inception) and the other about sanctification/deification (the continuation/fulfillment) using the same word it can get pretty confusing and lead to a lot of misunderstanding. Put in relational terms, we need to enter into a relationship with God (regeneration), and we then need to grow in that relationship (sanctification).
First, the author apparently has forgotten or has never learned what the Reformers, from Scripture, insisted upon... FAITH --> JUSTIFICATION + WORKS. A true faith is expressed in loving God with all one's mind, heart, soul and strength and loving one's neighbor as yourself. (cf. Rom 6; Jam 2:24, 26)

Secondly, his definition/use of the word 'regeneration' as "a relationship with God" is not supported by Scripture. Regeneration is that sovereign, secret and silent work of God the Spirit whereby a sinner is given spiritual life; the will is recreated, a new godly inclination is formed, and the mind is made able to know the things of God. It is OUT OF regeneration that one comes to seek after God through faith in Christ.

So, this is just another attempt to dismantle the "faith once delivered unto the saints" with a lie. Satan is incorrigible in his attempt to overthrow Christ's Church even knowing that all such attempts will fail. What a sorry creature he is.

In His grace,

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simul iustus et peccator

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