The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum To know or not know Jesus

Well...sort of. I don't know if you've ever read how Augustine related the two parables together, but, as usual, its pretty good stuff:

I'm aware of the context. The fact remains that Peter says that these false prophets and deceivers had escaped the pollutions of the world. In order for it to mean what you think it means, you must introduce something into the text which is not there...you must interpret "they have escaped," penned by the divinely inspired Peter as "appearing to have escaped." Right?

Methinks that Augustine has taken the parable and turned it on its head. There is not even a hint that the Lord Christ's interpretation of the parable to His disciples was intended to be taken as an injunctive counsel to the types of individuals symbolized in the four types of 'ground'. He was simply explaining how certain individuals result from hearing the Gospel. And, that those who do hear (spiritually), i.e., their hearts (good ground) which was created by the Spirit takes root and bears and will bear genuine good works.

In fact, if one wishes to do a valid comparison, one should read Mark's reporting of this telling of the parable and Christ's explanation in chapter 4:2-20. But the most telling part of that anecdote is to be found in verses 10-12:

In short, the reason that Jesus preached in parables to the masses was so that, hina, with the intended purpose, the hearers would not comprehend the meaning and consequently not be converted. Parables were designed to keep the unregenerate in their current state, but to those who were regenerate (given ears to hear, a mind to understand, etc.) they were life-giving words (cf., 2Cor 2:6-16).

This certainly gives much weight to my interpretation, which is held among nearly all Reformed Protestants, both scholars, doctors, pastors and sheep alike.

Hey Brian, what Peter says here is a correct....unlike the heathen they were recipients of the Gospel and made a public profession (and were most probably baptized in the name of Jesus)which especially in those days was no light manner (unlike many of the nominal Christians of recent times). Just like those infants who are baptized in the name of Jesus and are taught the Gospel/hearers of the word (Christ crucified....they have also escaped the pollutions of the world in a sense, as external recipients of the means of grace, however......

Let's consider these few verses of 1 John 2 -
So considering all of what I wrote how do you take what Peter says? You don't believe in 'eternal security' for lack of a better term so what are you implying that Peter means when he says....'they have escaped the pollution of this world? that it was a conditional escape? They escaped from the pollutions on the condition that they don't go back to the pollution? I don't believe Peter is speaking about salvation here....he is speaking externally, Peter does not have divine insight and he is speaking as an observer, not as one judging the heart or teaching unconditional/conditional election or ir/resistible grace.....that is not the focus or the intent of his words here.....Reformed Christians believe that by the fruits you will know who the true Christians are (but even so we don't have the divine insight to know who the true child of God is with complete certainty). We also believe that man is accountable, especially those who have been taught/shown the way and know the truth...they will be beaten with more stripes than the heathen....as Matthew Henry comments....

the next verse 2 Peter 2:22 states..... we have no indication that these 'false prophets' 'deceivers' were regenerated....quite the opposite since these labels are pretty good indicators that they are under demonic influence and do not have God's protection.

Sorry for the long post....I probably haven't changed your mind but thanks for considering what I wrote, regardless!

Peace!

AC