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Rick Bates
Rick Bates
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John_C #50429 Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:04 PM
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The Boy Wonder
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Believe me, Tom, I understand! We share the same story. I too was introduced to the doctrines of sovereign grace long before I understood biblical eschatology.

That's the whole point.

Reformed churches have been content not to teach eschatology, and so by default the "Left Behind" science fiction has become that majority report. Even some so-called Calvinists claim some form of Dispensational premillennialism. John MacArthur, for example.

By "not talking about end times stuff," Reformed churches have allowed this tragedy that you and I both experienced.


Last edited by Robin; Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:05 PM.
Robin #50431 Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:32 AM
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Robin
The problem however is I made this too big a deal, I wouldn't find a Church to fellowship at.
It took me years to find a Church with a high view of God's Word; that actually believed the doctrines of Grace. I love the direction the leadership is taking the Church.The pastor is actually equipping the saints for the work of ministry and we are seeing the positive results.
However, my pastor is Historic Premillenial ( same as Spurgeon was) and I being how much the Church has going for it, I would be foolish to leave over that issue.

Robin #50433 Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:44 PM
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Thanks Robin, said much more succinctly than my half-statement, half-question.


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Tom #50435 Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:35 PM
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The Boy Wonder
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Originally Posted by Tom
R... my pastor is Historic Premillenial ( same as Spurgeon was) and I being how much the Church has going for it, I would be foolish to leave over that issue.

Indeed. Historic premillennialism (chialism) would be no basis for "breaking fellowship." Today's popular Premillennialism is Dispensational, and that would be, for me at least, sufficient cause to look elsewhere, with it's two peoples of God, it's separate plans of salvation for each of them, it's completely foreign economy of salvation.

Postmillennialism seems to take a few different forms nowadays. I am more familiar with the "Dominion theology" I was taught in the Charismatic Word-Faith movement. Oddly mixed with a Dispensational bias, it emphasizes a militant Church taking dominion of the Earth through "spiritual warfare" and promises a latter-day resurgence of the charismatic gifts and restoration of the 1st-century offices of apostle and prohet. I vividly remember a widely published "prophetic vision" from Morningstar (Kansas City) which proclaimed that God would use Bill Clinton's presidency to bring unprescedented revival to America.

(oops, I guess they were wrong, but y'know, prophecy isn't an exact science after all, right? bingo )

But there are other forms of Postmillennialism, from the more biblical Postmillennialism of Jonathan Edwards to the Christian Reconstructionism of Gary DeMar, which lends itself as much to to political solutions as to "conquering the culture" through personal discipleship.

At least two of the modern forms of Postmillennialism - the confusing Charismatic "Dominion" flavor, and the Christian Reconstructionist version - would be reason, in my opinion, to "break fellowship," because of their errant and in my opinion arrogant view of the Church and her work in the world.

Proclaiming the truth, demonstrating the truth, conforming to the truth is our mission and work. The outworking of that, historically, has brought times of prosperity only rarely, and more often has brought persecution which purifies and strengthens the true Church while scattering the pretenders. History's example is one of the reasons I lean towards an Amillennial view.

Robin #50438 Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:54 AM
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Robin, thanks for your input.

Do you have any thoughts on Partial Preterist which appears that many modern-day, new post-mils (not the Reconstruction types) ascribed. It seems as if how much a person is into Partial Preterist will affect rather he is a-mill or post-mill.

Were Edwards and other post-mills in his day partial preterists?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #50439 Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:21 AM
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I prefer to call it "Orthodox preterism" rather than "partial," because full preterism is heresy!!

But the word "partial" doesn't quite convey the idea adequately.

Orthodox preterism is the basis - well, my basis - for an Amillennial eschatology. It all started in college history classes.

I wrote a blog post about it here that kinda sorta summarizes the history studies which led me to what I call "orthodox preterism."

Now full disclosure: I am not as well-informed on the subject as it appears. I dropped out of college to join the fire department and always meant to finish but never got around to it. A far more and better informed source of historical information about preterism (and the great Jonathan Edwards) is probably any one of our better educated members!

Robin #50443 Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Robin
I prefer to call it "Orthodox preterism" rather than "partial," because full preterism is heresy!!

But the word "partial" doesn't quite convey the idea adequately.

Orthodox preterism is the basis - well, my basis - for an Amillennial eschatology. It all started in college history classes.

I wrote a blog post about it here that kinda sorta summarizes the history studies which led me to what I call "orthodox preterism."

Now full disclosure: I am not as well-informed on the subject as it appears. I dropped out of college to join the fire department and always meant to finish but never got around to it. A far more and better informed source of historical information about preterism (and the great Jonathan Edwards) is probably any one of our better educated members!

I definately am not one of the more educated members. However, I do have a suggestion, for anyone who wants to understand this issue better. Read William Henriksen's book 'More Than Conquerors'.

Tom

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