Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Tom
Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 4,913
Joined: April 2001
Forum Statistics
Forums32
Topics8,558
Posts56,840
Members999
Most Online4,295
May 22nd, 2026
Top Posters
Pilgrim 15,216
Tom 4,913
chestnutmare 3,503
J_Edwards 2,615
John_C 1,908
Wes 1,856
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
Robin 1,086
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 43
Tom 7
Recent Posts
"Able to keep you from falling."
by Pilgrim - Fri Oct 09, 2026 6:24 AM
"Wherefore hast Thou afflicted Thy servant?"
by Pilgrim - Wed Oct 07, 2026 6:56 AM
Eschatological Awareness
by kaoticprofit - Mon Oct 05, 2026 10:45 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
#52903 Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:25 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
''I hold to the original understanding of Scripture the Early Church was taught, this known as Historic Millennialism. I reject the Gnostic views of Augustine, his views have produced bad fruit in Church history.''... posted from Facebook.


"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Mckinley #52904 Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,217
Likes: 340
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,217
Likes: 340
Originally Posted by Mckinley
''I hold to the original understanding of Scripture the Early Church was taught, this known as Historic Millennialism. I reject the Gnostic views of Augustine, his views have produced bad fruit in Church history.''... posted from Facebook.
Methinks the writer is referring to "Historic Premillennialism".

See here: The History of Chiliasm.

And here: Evaluating Premillennialism.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #52905 Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:53 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
The following is from his site and what he holds too, again, I am not very familiar with the theology, other then his referencing a lot to the Gnostics, and I quote '' I do have one on my website votanf.com but I am more incline to a line with the first Ante-Nicene Creed. You will find that all statement of faith has errors in them that does not a line with Apostolic teaching of the first 300 years. Augustine's teaching has done a good job of mudding the waters and teaching things that were considered as heretical to the Early Church.''..


"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Pilgrim #52906 Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:54 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 148
Thank you for the links, I will study this week!


"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant." STEPHEN CHARNOCK
Mckinley #52907 Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,217
Likes: 340
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,217
Likes: 340
Originally Posted by Mckinley
The following is from his site and what he holds too, again, I am not very familiar with the theology, other then his referencing a lot to the Gnostics, and I quote '' I do have one on my website votanf.com but I am more incline to a line with the first Ante-Nicene Creed. You will find that all statement of faith has errors in them that does not a line with Apostolic teaching of the first 300 years. Augustine's teaching has done a good job of mudding the waters and teaching things that were considered as heretical to the Early Church.''..
I visited his website... waited several minutes for it to load rolleyes2 and read through his BELIEF section. Hmmmm, it's an admixture of Anabaptism, Advent Christian, semi-Pelagianism, and perhaps even Pelagianism. The bottom line is he holds to damnable heresy. Now, as far as his love and promotion of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, it is incontrovertible that there was MUCH confusion, error and heresy held among those early men. That's why, for example, the Nicene, Athanasian and Chalcedon Creeds were written and others, e.g., the Council of Orange in order to refute some of the serious heresies being taught during that time. Is that very surprising? It shouldn't be for if one simply reads through the New Testament, Paul, James and John wrote MANY rebukes, castigations, corrections, etc., to the churches of their own day. Further, the Lord Christ Himself in the first 3 chapters of Revelation has some very harsh words against some of the groups within the existent church due to their heretical doctrines and/or practices.

Thus, the writings of the Ante-Nicene fathers are interesting to read but they are hardly a sound source for determining God's truth. Scripture and Scripture alone is the sole and final authority in all matters of faith and practice. There are LOTS of people similar to this person today who promote their heresies on Facebook, etc. And often they boast that one can trace their heritage back to the Apostles, which they think warrants them having special authority and infallibility over others. igiveup [Linked Image]

FYI you have up to 6 hours to make corrections, add/delete, etc. for any of your own new posts or a reply. grin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #52908 Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 537
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 537
There were a large group of early Church Fathers who did hold to what we would consider a historical premil viewpoint, as do I, butthere were also many who held to more of an Amil viewpoint also. Amil became the dominent poistion once Augustine way of spiritualizing prophecy by allogories and types became the norm. He also held that the catholic Church was the Kingdom of God on earth. So he was spot on regarding Original Sin and predestination, but not so much in other things!

JesusFan #52910 Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,217
Likes: 340
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,217
Likes: 340
Originally Posted by JesusFan
Amil became the dominent poistion once Augustine way of spiritualizing prophecy by allogories and types became the norm. He also held that the catholic Church was the Kingdom of God on earth. So he was spot on regarding Original Sin and predestination, but not so much in other things!
1. Augustine held to many other orthodox doctrines besides original sin and predestination. A cursory reading of some of his writings will confirm that truth. grin

2. Re: "spiritualizing prophecy by allegories"... that would be your natural criticism given your hermeneutical presupposition, i.e., "a literal reading of Scripture". However, Augustine nor anyone who holds to either Postmillennialism or Amillennialism "spiritualizes" Scripture nor imposes an allegorical genre on Scripture except where Scripture itself does so, e.g., Gal 4:24.

Perhaps you would benefit from reading Vern Poythress' article here: What is Literal Interpretation?.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #52926 Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 537
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 537
You are correct that he had goos theology on many of his positions, byt still was faulty in some, as we all are, and do see that his approach to how to inteprete prophecy led tolarge extent the Amil viewpoint being adopted at large within Christianity.

To me, the essentialtruth is there will bethe Second Coming event, and we will be raised up an resurrected glorified, and godly chrostians will continue to debate/discuss this until that day!


Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 131 guests, and 109 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
kaoticprofit, Rick Meixelberge, bailey gilbert, bdavidc, gdl24
999 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
October
S M T W T F S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,967,029 Gospel truth