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#56618 Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:53 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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I am having a discussion with someone concerning the “red letter” words of Jesus.
He contends that the words of Jesus are more important than the rest of Scripture. (He is pro-red letter Bible)
Myself and others have tried to explain to him that all the Bible is inspired (God breathed)) and is just as important as the “red letters”.
I have basically given up on the discussion.
However, I can not seem to understand his latest post and wonder if It is just me?
What do you make of the following?

Quote
Tom. I listen to RC sproul and he mentioned Benjamin b warfield .

Benjamin b warfield and Cornelius van til wrote on the inerrancy and authority of scripture .

When God created everything he did so for one purpose- since the purpose of all things via the scripture evidence is that all things work together to declare God. Gods Glory. Gods Son. Gods truth. Gods attributes and characters plans and purposes decrees and intentions and communication.

When God inspired the Words themselves over the events he insured that every word would convey from the events what he intended the events - objects- the names the themes - the living allegories- the theatre of Gods declaration- the matrix code of Gods communication. Exactly what he intended them to. From start to end . You don’t hat which he ordains.

And inside of that we have certain books for certain reasons - layers upon layers of revelation being dressed out by the Holy Spirits perfect work in inspiration of words over the events!

A infinite number of layers in every book. Since it’s a declaration via the events first! And then gathered and explained by the words SECOND ! Of an infinite God who has made himself known according to his Good pleasure.

Now - knowing all this ! If we had to ! I would have Jesus words. Since he declared the Kingdom - since he spoke - since he was illuminating power and revelation of all life and scripture itself.

Yes! Without the Holy Spirit scripture is impossible to understand ! Yes ! We are blind unless the Holy Spirit reveals . Yes we can do nothing except God draws us - make us - holds us- keeps us and brings us into heaven by his power.

That is the point. I understand.

I’m just saying. If I had to choose ! Since I already said the OP was a straw man argument I would go with Jesus words in red. Preference . You want Romans go with Romans . Holy Spirit will reveal the truth through Romans. As much as he is required to reveal it through the red letters .

The problem with RC sproul is - I’ve never heard him talk about the cirlcuar nature of God inspired because it’s God inspired ,

Jesus said- even if I testified of myself my testimony is true. But the scriptures testify of me.

In that day. He was referring to the Torah and etc. the events of the Hebrew people in which every book testified of Jesus of God. Through all the characters and events. He said without circular argument that the facts declare your existence to be the Word of God itself in raw form that all the events work together as one who is controlling them all perfectly to declare Jesus in which the Holy Spirit makes known. He said that the Holy Spirit makes known! But he didn’t appeal to the Holy Spirit Jesus appealed to the Torah, the events themselves that declared him as God in which all things are contingent upon.

The creation is contingent upon the bible- the bible contingent upon creation.

If their was no creation no
Events no objects to be used in the picture format to represent Jesus then their would be no written word declaring it. God has done what a. Thrice Omni God has done. He didn’t have to but he did. And it’s genius ! It’s the greatest truth of reality we can know apart from the realities of Gods attributes and character in the experiencing ways he may give to his own, .



Tom #56619 Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom
However, I can not seem to understand his latest post and wonder if It is just me?
What do you make of the following?
Not much! I think he may be trying to say that both natural revelation (creation) and special revelation (Scripture) are both equally "inspired". The latter explains what natural revelation is allegedly what God is 'saying' through and in His creation. shrug But the majority of his response is incomprehensible to me personally as a reason for his choosing the 'red letters' (Jesus' words) over all other inspired sources of God. dizzy


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Pilgrim #56620 Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:58 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Glad it is not just me.
Did you notice what he said about RC Sproul and Warfield, particular what is wrong with Sproul?
I did not understand that point either.
Perhaps he was saying that Warfield would disagree with Sproul? But if that is the case, I am not sure what specifically Warfield would disagree with Sproul on.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:00 PM.
Tom #56621 Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:20 PM
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I’m just saying. If I had to choose ! Since I already said the OP was a straw man argument I would go with Jesus words in red. Preference . You want Romans go with Romans . Holy Spirit will reveal the truth through Romans. As much as he is required to reveal it through the red letters .

It is sometimes said that the Gospel of John could stand alone, and be all the scripture that is necessary to bring someone to Christ. In the above paragraph, the poster seems to be saying that if one had to choose a certain portion of scripture, he would choose those portions represented by the red letters, as opposed to choosing John, or Romans which he mentions--but that you may choose Romans or whatever other portion you will, and he seems fine with that.

Apart from that, the rest of his post is as obscure to me as it is to you, but I think Pilgrim's interpretation is about as close as you will get.


Meta4

There is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. - C.H. Spurgeon
Meta4 #56622 Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:48 PM
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The problem the person quoted has is that 1) ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God. 2) The inspired written Word is ONE book which should not and cannot be separated among its 66 books. 3) The hermenuetical problem is great, for the OT is interpreted by the NT; the Epistles interpret the Gospels; the Didactic interprets the Symbolic; the Universal interprets the Local. So what all that means is those 'special' red letters cannot be fully understood if isolated from the apostolic epistles. scratchchin

Yes, I have often heard people say if they could only have one book out of the 66, they would choose the Gospel of John. However, what is interesting is that the book of Isaiah has 66 chapters and covers nearly every fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith and the Gospel is clearly included. But again, Isaiah is properly understood by the later prophets and the NT.

Lastly, I dunno about my 'interpretation' of this person's musings. But I am 100% sure that whatever he was trying to convey, it escapes me. But to be honest, I'm definitely not the brightest bulb in the box. rofl

Thanks for your participation. grin


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Meta4 #56623 Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:11 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Meta4, yes I have heard people say that the book of John could stand alone as well. Yet, I have never heard someone say, that the book or John (or the red letters) are more important than the rest of Scripture. In fact it is the first person I have heard/read say something like that, that claims to be Reformed. He also mentions Warfield as though he is espousing the views of Warfield; rather than Sproul. Though I admit, if I do not know if that is what he was saying.

Tom

Tom #56624 Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:19 PM
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Yes, I am agreed with you both, and in no wise do I believe that some scriptures are more important than others. I was only saying that it appeared to me that that is what he was saying. smile


Meta4

There is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. - C.H. Spurgeon
Meta4 #56625 Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:23 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Meta4 I certainly did not think you did not agree with both of us.

In fact what you said is as good a guess as I have seen.
Now you probably understand why I gave up on the conversation with the person. What I revealed was only his last post; before that many others tried to show him the truth. We were being very patient with him, yet he accused us of ganging up on him.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:31 PM.

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