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Readin
Readin
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#57043 Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
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Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
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Progressive Christianity

As many may know, there is quite a dangerous movement called “Progressive Christianity”. They seem to liberal Christianity’s (oxymoron) answer to today’s culture.

They embrace things like Woke and LBGQT+ and actually use Scripture to justify themselves. This movement also attracts people, such a several relatives of mine, who grew up in abusive Churches.
They love to use theologians that support them.

That is actually why I am bringing this question to this forum.

Matthew Vines, who is openly gay, is someone that is used by them. The following is what he says about Leviticus 18:22

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
There are many passages of Scripture, dealing with the subject such as this particular Old Testament verse.
First of all, I would like to provide what an openly gay theologian says about it and then say a few things."

MATTHEW VINES
Quote
Christ fulfilled the Old Testament law, and the New Testament teaches that Christians should live under the new covenant rather than the old one. Consequently, this verse has never applied to Christians. For a man to lie with a man “as with a woman” violated the patriarchal gender norms of the ancient world, which is likely why Leviticus prohibited it. But the New Testament casts a vision of God’s kingdom in which the hierarchy between men and women is overcome in Christ. So not only is Leviticus’s prohibition inapplicable to Christians on its own, the rationale behind it doesn’t extend to Christians, either.”

I do not believe it all that hard to see what is wrong with this; not to mention they start out with a fallacy right away.
However, I thought perhaps others here might think of a better way to show that Matthew Vines is all wet in what he says.

Tom

Last edited by Pilgrim; Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:48 AM. Reason: Put your remarks outside of Vine's quote. :)
Tom #57044 Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:12 AM
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1. I am going to repeat myself with what I have counseled you on myriad occasions.

2. There are numerous passages in the NT that explicitly (didactically) deal with the issue of homosexuality and which incontrovertibly denounce it as an abomination, immoral, damnable, etc. (Rom 1:26,27; 1Cor 6:9; 1Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7). This last text makes clear that the OT prohibitions against any/all forms of homosexuality and various forms of sexual perversion are NOT abrogated by the "new covenant" but rather are to be understood as examples for all ages.

Quote
Jude 1:7 (ASV) 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
Sound exegesis of the various passages, both OT and NT which mention homosexuality are perspicuous in their condemnation.

3. You MUST accept that any that you choose to call "friends" and your "relatives" are embracing doctrine(s) and/or practices which are contrary to God's infallible Word. And in doing so, they MUST be considered unregenerate. This MUST demand of you that you a) distance yourself from them as they are darkness and of the Evil One, and b) debating with them concerning such things is futile, for their immediate need is the Gospel through and by which the Spirit works to bring regeneration so that they may, by God's mercy and grace, be brought to repentance and faith in the Lord Christ unto salvation.

Meditate on Paul's inspired words to the Corinthian church:

Quote
2 Corinthians 6:13-18 (ASV) 13 Now for a recompense in like kind (I speak as unto [my] children), be ye also enlarged. 14 Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement hath a temple of God with idols? for we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you, 18 And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to me sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


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simul iustus et peccator

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Tom #57055 Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
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Dialogues with unbelievers over doctrine can actually be dangerous to ourselves and also sin.

A while back I learned from a man, Dean Gotcher of Authority Research about the dangers of dialogues with unbelievers on scripture/doctrine. Eve dialogued with Satan, bad move. She became deceived. Because she ended up questioning God's Word and also mishandled or twisted what God said.

In Matthew chapter 4 the exchange between Satan and Jesus has Jesus simply, correctly, quoting scripture, to refute Satan. Big difference.

With the ones that are in my life, who are unsaved, I do not ever discuss those 'political' hot topics. Because it's rooted in spiritual deception anyway. They don't get it.

The real problem is that my loved ones are not saved. So there can be no understanding of what I might say to them regarding for instance, the stand that even supposed Christians are now taking regarding abortion, homosexuality, or any other morality issue that is embraced by an unbeliever.

I find that it's important to pray always for those that I love and are deceived. I pray constantly for their regeneration and salvation. God's timing is not mine. It's hard to watch the deceived ones you love promote deception and lies.

But pray always, and look for or wait for those opportunities to share the gospel. You can only plant seeds or water those seeds. If you get to reap a harvest know that every false belief will be taken care of, as the Holy Spirit teaches and leads them into truth.
I see the embracing of false theology or 'political' abhorrent beliefs as symptoms. Its a symptom of spiritual deadness or at least of a weak and ignorant believer.
Pray always.

Last edited by Readin; Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:40 AM. Reason: misspelling

Jude 3
...contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

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