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Tom #57116 Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:50 AM
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Some, of whom I am one, simply refuse to submit to getting the vaccine because there is less risk involved in contracting COVid, and the resulting immunity is far better than that of the vaccine(s). Then, there are the reports which I cannot verify yet that some of the R&D done to develop one, more or all of the vaccines have utilized parts of aborted babies. That definitely is a disgusting reason to avoid them for me. And of course, there is the illegality of government over-stepping its authority and demanding that all citizens get the vaccine under penalty of law. Sorry, but I ain't bowing the knee to 'Caesar' on this one. nope


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Pilgrim #57118 Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:53 PM
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Concerning aborted baby parts being used in the vaccines.
I have researched that issue.
However, depending on who you listen/read to, you get different information on that.
I am not just talking about secular people on that issue either.
Many Christian professionals also have different takes on that as well.

I think this might be deliberate, not necessary because the Christian professionals who say there
is nothing to reports of aborted babies used in the vaccines are lying.
Rather, it could mean where they get the information themselves have pulled the wool
over their eyes.
But then again; what do I know?

As I indicated before, I have not been vaccinated either.
There are conflicting reports however, that indicate that the elderly with health issues such as COPD
would be advised to get vaccinated.
Scientists who are saying the vaccines are being used improperly are reporting this about the elderly.
They seem to think that because of the risk there is greater in them, than it is getting vaccinated, the elderly
with health concerns should consider getting vaccinated.
I do not know enough about that issue.
However, if they were allowing drugs such as Ivermectin, I doubt that would be an issue.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:17 PM.
Tom #57119 Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:53 AM
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1. The moniker "Christian" especially in our day has little to no real meaning to me. It can have endless meanings which have absolutely nothing to do with what the Bible defines as a Christian. So, someone who identifies (another bastardized word) themselves as a 'christian'.. scientist, doctor, politician, plumber, etc., etc, immediately makes me skeptical; being a Calvinist.

2. The video that Anthony provided does pique my interest, however, since it alleges to be a Project Veritas production. Of course, its verity only rests upon a) Veritas Project is the actual source, b) Veritas did a thorough investigation, c) the 'whistleblower' is genuine and her evidence is verifiable. IF what is seen on the video is actually true, then it makes no difference whatsoever what anyone else thinks, regardless who they are.

3. There are some medicines that are quite effective of treating infected individuals which are dismissed by the Left and the 'sheep' who have partaken of the Kool-aid.

4. A VERY small minority of the population are at serious risk of dying from COVid and its variants which are myriad in number. They probably could benefit from taking the vaccine, but they are also at risk from the vaccine itself due to their particular underlying condition. But the OVERWHELMING majority of people are not at risk of dying from contracting this disease. IF I remember correctly, the percentage of those dying is c. .0001%. More people die from household accidents, car crashes, drugs, alcohol consumption and other things which people rarely think about.

5. This entire COVid fiasco has become a religion as has manmade Climate Change. It's the way of the world and its God-less corruption thinking which is and always has been existent and which will influence the majority of people in this world. One must be fervent in prayer that the Spirit working out the Father's will and providence will keep Christ's people from being deceived and give them strength to endure the persecution which accompanies their rejection of all falsehood.

Quote
Mark 13:5-23 (ASV) 5 And Jesus began to say unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray. 6 Many shall come in my name, saying, I am [he]; and shall lead many astray. 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, be not troubled: [these things] must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be earthquakes in divers places; there shall be famines: these things are the beginning of travail. 9 But take ye heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in synagogues shall ye be beaten; and before governors and kings shall ye stand for my sake, for a testimony unto them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached unto all the nations. 11 And when they lead you [to judgment], and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child; and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death. 13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. 14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: 15 and let him that is on the housetop not go down, nor enter in, to take anything out his house: 16 and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak. 17 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter. 19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be. 20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; or, Lo, there; believe [it] not: 22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand.


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Tom #57121 Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:01 AM
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I can’t add anything to that!
Thank you!

Tom #57125 Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:15 PM
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Interesting read. A diverse amount of skepticism even in the secular realm….

“Jean-Pierre Joseph, a 74-year-old lawyer in Grenoble, said he has never been vaccinated, based on the recommendation of his grandfather, who was a doctor. “My grandfather told my mother that it’s a lie,” he said.

Mr. Joseph has represented clients who have sued the government over previous vaccination campaigns, such as a much-criticized effort to fight the swine flu epidemic in 2009. This time, Mr. Joseph has been lobbying those in his family and at work not to take the Pfizer vaccine. “Many people are afraid because they know it’s not a normal vaccine.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/france...skeptic-in-covid-19-pandemic-11610971051

Tom #57126 Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:34 PM
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The case for natural immunity and red states / non-vaxxed majority countries is so great that even a God hater (we should pray for him) like Bill Maher can see it…..

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bill-maher-covid-restrictions-coronavirus-pandemic-over

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...amulet_that_wards_away_evil_spirits.html

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….”Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

The anti-lockdown, anti-mask, Covid skeptics have data, common sense and Godly reason on their side, period. I won’t even debate it.

My 2cents on Covid tests…. https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/covid_testing_weve_been_duped.html#.X6KqmfXp_Ek.mailto

Last edited by Anthony C.; Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:24 PM.
Anthony C. #57128 Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:49 PM
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Anthony

Thanks for the link.
One of the issues that I find very strange and is one of the reasons I chose not to be vaccinated for Covid-19, is the fact that in my research especially in Canada. I noticed Canada usually takes longer than many countries to approve medicines. In this case, for example vaccines take a minimum of 3+ years and usually much longer of rigorous testing. Then even after they are used on the public. If a certain amount of harm comes because of the medicine, they are discontinued.

Many years ago I knew a lady in the Church we attended, who had aggressive Cancer. She lived about 20 years with it, before it eventually claimed her life. Many say the only reason she lived that long is because in Canada and the USA, the medicines she researched that might cure her, were not allowed. For that reason every year, she went to Mexico for treatment. In her case, this was understandable, because she had nothing to lose by taking medicines that were not approved in Canada.

Not only were these Covid-19 vaccines rolled out in about 18 months; the harm done by the vaccines have far surpassed previous standards in terms of harm (even by their own stats). Many front line scientists and physicians have spoken out about these facts. However they are being ignored, or worse.

Many times I have tried to speak to people, both Christian and non-Christian and I believe the majority of the time; I am either mocked, or ignored. It appears that many of them do so because
they would rather believe the government and health care officials, wouldn't harm their citizens. Some may not like the mandates and may even mention this point. However, by and large they believe the health officials are acting for the good of the citizens. Any conflicting information to what health official peddle, is considered "conspiracy" and therefore should be rejected.

I was in a discussion with a family member and showed her something a front line doctor was saying against the vaccines. Adding that many people are completely ignoring him and other doctors.
The response I received back was: "They should be ignored, it is obvious they don't care about people." Believe me, I had to bite my tongue, because I knew at the time if I had opened my mouth, I may have ruined a relationship.

As I mentioned they may not agree with the mandates; but they believe under the circumstances the unvaccinated are forcing them to do what they need to do.
After all as one person put it: "The sooner everyone is vaccinated, the sooner we we will be out of this mess."
Asked if they would be willing to take booster shots on average of twice a year? They respond with something like: "I will cross that bridge when it comes."

Tom #57130 Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom
As I mentioned they may not agree with the mandates; but they believe under the circumstances the unvaccinated are forcing them to do what they need to do.
The FACT is, the vaccines are not nearly as effective as claimed. The countries where 75%-90% of the people are vaccinated have the highest number of infections. It is factually totally false that the blame rests upon the unvaccinated. And hospitalizations and deaths occur more with vaccinated than unvaccinated because those who have contracted COVID have a much more effective immunity than the vaccines provide, which is now found to be around 30%.

Again... stop whining about all the people who reject the truth and choose to believe the lies of the politicians, media and big corporations who are making enormous sums of money, and gaining more and more control of the ignorant 'sheep'. You worry far too much about being accepted by relatives and so-called friends. But what has light to do with darkness? They are of the world.. And you profess to have been called out of this world and delivered from all the philosophies and ways of the world. Persecution is what follows all who strive to live a holy life in Christ Jesus and find truth in the Bible.

Amos 3:3 (ASV) "Shall two walk together, except they have agreed?"

Matthew 10:32-40 (ASV) 32 Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven. 34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law: 36 and a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that doth not take his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


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Tom #57132 Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:02 PM
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You have a good head about all this. I’m frustrated just hearing the reactions you are getting. But understand, nobody wants to believe the capacity for evil that men, even and especially men in high places, are capable of. Only God can humble, enlighten and comfort us. I tend to agree with pilgrim. And those who are vaxxed are probably going to stand by their choice.

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Tom #57134 Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:35 AM
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Pilgrim

I gave you that information, not to whine about how they were reacting to me. I was giving it as information about what is happening.

Yet, what you said is a good reminder not to start feeling sorry for myself. There is a very easy tendency that we can all fall prey to; is to take our eyes off of Christ and think somehow we can get through this in our own strength.

That is not only arrogant , but the consequences lead to self-pity. So that is the way I took you, rather than get defensive I am going to take it as a good reminder. I will say however, as fellow believers, we really need each other.


"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us." (Romans 9:35-37 KJV)

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:40 AM.
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