Donations for the month of August


We have received a total of "$0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
NH, USA
Posts: 14,246
Joined: April 2001
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,558
Posts54,075
Members972
Most Online523
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,246
Tom 4,252
chestnutmare 3,223
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,841
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 20
Pilgrim 18
jta 7
Meta4 1
John_C 1
Recent Posts
Armstrong First to step on the Moon
by Tom - Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:48 PM
Christian Nationalism
by Anthony C. - Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:59 PM
Musings
by Anthony C. - Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:06 PM
Thoughts on Backsliding ~ J.C. Ryle
by Rick Bates - Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:23 PM
Assurance of Justification
by NetChaplain - Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:59 AM
Suffering’s Solace
by NetChaplain - Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:52 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
#57917 Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,252
Likes: 4
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
OP Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,252
Likes: 4
Here is a question for you that I was asked.
“Is there a difference between Historic Amillennialism and Optimistc Amillennialism?

If so, what are the differences?

Tom

Tom #57918 Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,246
Likes: 45
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,246
Likes: 45
1. "Optimistic Amillennialism" is a relatively new term which I find unnecessary if any sense of words matters.
2. The various views of eschatology keep changing so that it is more than difficult to comprehend what anything means nowadays.
3. There is one major difference, unless someone or group has morphed the definitions again; the "Optimistic Amillennialists" are now more similar to Postmillenialists because they see a "christianization" of the nations and a major conversion of the Jews to Christianity.

I am of the "Historic Amillennialism" and cannot foresee changing unless God Himself appears to me and shows me in Scripture where the other "correct" view(s) are taught. This He will do on the New Earth to be sure. grin From what I've read from "Optimistic Amillennialists" which they prefer to be identified as, they are similar to Pre-mils in that they view things from the outside/empirically vs. spiritually. For example, many comment how 'improved' the world is now compared to the first century. Sure, we now have cell phones and relative peace vs. roaming hordes of blood-thirsty tribes slaughtering men, women and children in their wake. However, I view things as progressively and exponentially worse than that of the first century. A man identifying himself as a woman in the first century would probably ended in sudden death. Even 100 years ago, could one imagine a woman getting married to her German Shepherd or in another case, a woman marrying a bridge? drop Morality has all but been eradicated in the modern world. The peace and prosperity that people think is an improvement to me is nothing less than a facade; lipstick on a pig. The Church is one; Jews and Gentile believers and not two separate groups of people. And, it is growing as the Lord adds those whom He has elected unto salvation among all the nation of the world. The victory was won on Calvary and it's fulfillment is continuous until Christ returns. Okay..... I'm done! giggle


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #57919 Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,252
Likes: 4
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
OP Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,252
Likes: 4
Thankyou Pilgrim
That is somewhat helpful.
However, some of what you said according to my studies is opposite to what I found.

The first century morality was much worse than today. You had open and accepted pedophelia, homosexuality was totally normalized, you had even more wicked versions of prostitution, you didn’t have all the virtues of Christianity in society that is taken for granted today.

Tom

Tom #57920 Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,246
Likes: 45
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,246
Likes: 45
You REALLY think that morality or the lack thereof was worse during Paul's day than it is today? rolleyes2 I would contend that ungodliness has progressed throughout history from the Fall to our day and will continue to get worse until Christ returns (cf. Mark 13:22 and Matt 24). The world will grow worse and worse AND the establishment of Christ's Church will progress at the same time. Historic Amillennialism isn't "negative, defeatism, etc." but realisitic, thus Realized Millennialism. I don't fabricate my eschatology by reading daily newspaper headlines or from watching the fake news networks. All these things will continue until the end. Debauchery is constantly becoming the "norm" which makes the first century seem mild in comparison. Hedonism, paganism and humanism rule the day and persecution is increasing against any who speak out against it. C'mon Tom, you live in Canada and thus you should know about the wickedness that rules your country. The Okanagan isn't the paradigm of the heart of Canada. The largest spectator event in all Canada has been for years the Gay Pride parades. Bien venue au Canada!! igiveup


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #57921 Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,252
Likes: 4
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
OP Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,252
Likes: 4
Pilgrim I am not necessarily saying it was worse back in the first century. Though, some might claim that.
After all, today Christian sexuality is being deemed as “a harmful myth” to quote Bill C-4 in Canada.

However, during the first century they had similar views that were completely against Christian morality.
In fact almost all the NT texts were written to Christians living in a predominantly Roman world.
I have read many articles written on that issue over the years and even back in high school a teacher focused on the Roman Empire for about 3/4 of the year and part of it was on this particular issue.
In case you are interested, here is one article I found mentioning the sexual morals of Roman society.

https://www.challies.com/articles/3-awful-features-of-roman-sexual-morality/

Romans did not think in terms of homosexual or heterosexual.
Roman sexuality even accepted pedophilia.
This is just the tip of the iceberg; but it was often violent when it came to sexuality.

What is true; is that even in the past century, Christian sexuality which was generally accepted view in Western society, has fallen out of favour.
When you and I were young, homosexuals were often mocked and that is why many refused to “come out of the closet.”
I maintain however, that many even in Christian homes, go against what their parents and Church’s teach on sexuality. Mainly because it is so accepted in the world today.

I have some really good Christian friend’s who adopted a 2 year old girl over 16 years ago now.
This young girl’s birth mother was a drug addict and because of this she suffers from high functioning autism.
Now that she 18 and despite the fact my friends tried to bring her up in the Lord. She is now rebelling and wants to identify as a male named Adam.
She has become unmanageable and often will punch her dad.
He once grasped her by the wrist to restrain her and this bruised her wrists.
She called the police and the police officer though understanding of why he did this; said under no circumstance is he allowed to do that again.
He went onto to say that if she does it to him again, he needs to walk away and call the police if necessary.
This girl also started smoking pot; but they were able to convince her that she can not bring it on the property.

They have gone for help for her; but she will not accept it.
They are in the process of trying to find out their options. But so far, they have not found anything that helps; though if she goes way too far; Social Services will help. (What does she need to do, kill someone? Sigh…)

This is but one of the sad stories, Christian friends and relatives are going through.


Tom

Last edited by Tom; Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:23 PM.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 26 guests, and 18 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TheSojourner, Larry, Nana Dadzie Jr., Cliniql, John E
972 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
August
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,359,464 Gospel truth