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Armstrong First to step on the Moon
by Tom - Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:48 PM
Christian Nationalism
by Anthony C. - Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:59 PM
Musings
by Anthony C. - Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:06 PM
Thoughts on Backsliding ~ J.C. Ryle
by Rick Bates - Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:23 PM
Assurance of Justification
by NetChaplain - Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:59 AM
Suffering’s Solace
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#57924 Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:15 AM
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Tom Offline OP
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In this day and age with the way society is going; many in the Church are turning to things like Theonomy and Christian Nationalism.
For the past year or two I have tried to study this subject; for some obvious reasons; such as the infringement of the Church by the Government, on a number of fronts. Also, the taking away of rights such as free speech. Also, penalizing citizens who have not been vaccinated. Something Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says the unvaccinated have “unacceptable views”. The unvaccinated also can not enter the USA without proof of vaccination and although some countries allow unvaccinated to enter their country. Upon returning to Canada, there is a mandatory 14 day quarantine.
In Canada we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Which is supposed to protect the rights of individuals and Churches, not only to free speech, but freedom to practice our religion; without the state’s interference.
This of course, has been ignored by the government and in many cases pastors who did not comply were fined and or put in jail.
That is not the half of it.

One thing I have found however, is the ambiguity of what terms like Theonomy and Christian Nationalism have become.
For example, some say they hold to Theonomy, but do not agree; or have not even read people like Rushdoony or Bahnsen on the topic.
In other words, they say they are Theonomists and Christian Nationalists, but have redefined what these terms mean.

I for one, although I have learned a lot about the issues. I have even learned what our own Construction says of the matters.
It is fairly clear our Canadian Constitution much like the USA; was based on the Judeo Christian Ethic.
Yet, secular people scoff at that and what is even sadder is the fact much of the Church, does not recognize a few important things.
One-that the government has overstepped their bounds.
Two-that they believe that Christians who do not comply, ruin their witness to the world.
I have heard that last one all too many times.

Part of the reason for me writing this; is to help myself think through these things.

The term “Christian Nationalist” is one really that I am not sure what to think about.
Is it someone who just recognizes the Judeo-Christian ethics our nations were founded on and seeks to do what they can both spiritually speaking and politically speaking.
If so, I have no problem with it.
Or does Christian Nationalism go further than that much like Bahnsen would advocate? Or maybe something else entirely?

What do I call myself and what should I believe on all these things?
Sometimes despite gaining knowledge on these issues; in a way it makes me less certain in other ways.
One thing I am certain on is God is sovereign and works all things out for our good.
We are more than Conquerers through Christ.
All in all, I must remember to keep my mind on Christ through whatever life throws at us.

Thoughts are welcome.

Tom

Tom #57926 Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:40 AM
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All this new terminology and new ideas which seem to occupy your thinking reminds of what Paul experienced at Mars Hill...

Quote
Acts 17:18-21 (ASV) 18 And certain also of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, What would this babbler say? others, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached Jesus and the resurrection. 19 And they took hold of him, and brought him unto the Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new teaching is, which is spoken by thee? 20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean. 21 (Now all the Athenians and the strangers sojourning there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell or to hear some new thing.)
To me, the similarities are two: 1) Far too many professing Christians spend time in the thinking and things of this world which in the vast majority of time are frivolous and even detrimental to their minds and souls. And, 2) The antidote is simple. Paul focused his entire life on the "old paths"; the Gospel and the inspired written Word of God which brings life and spiritual health to every believer. If these people spent even half the amount of time contemplating on the revealed truth of God which they do on every fad, new idea, trend, etc. which dominates this world, they would have far more profit and become far wiser and know that such things should be avoided. They are Satan's distraction and are meant to distract, diminish and even destroy those who belong to Christ.

As a side note, the majority of seminaries are guilty of this same trap. Professors and students alike spend countless and dangerous hours teaching and learning "new things" rather than focusing upon what God has written and established throughout centuries which bring freedom in Christ and separation from this dying world. Theses and dissertations MUST be a new 'perspective' on an old truth which in essence distorts that truth and/or contain something which no one else has dreamed of before. Uniqueness is NOT beneficial but conformity to the image of Christ which the Spirit works in every true believer. We are to be like Him. That is our goal and which should consume our every thought, word, and deed as individuals united to our Head who is all and all.


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Pilgrim #57927 Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:26 PM
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This gets a hearty Amen from me! Because I was there (at least on the political side, and to some extent the theological side).

Why do I have to become acquainted with every new and or modern day theologian and where they side. I’m sure there are some inspiring professors but they are just men with some academic insights. Then we have guys like Al Mohler and others who need to maintain a high cultural profile for whatever reason. I’m leery.

I’m ultimately pleased to have been let down by essentially all men in the political and religious sphere. The failings of men are abundant and now we are somehow compelled to keep a running tab of everything under the sun, including moral failings and strange views. And don’t even get me started on the philosophy trip many are on. This is the new things Pilgrim is speaking of. An intellectual perspective and spin on matters we should have long since confirmed. God’s Word lays it all out. Why do we need some limited perspective from more than a century ago (pre-Reformation) to get back on track?

As far as Christian Nationalism, it’s merely derogatory. It’s ultimately an unintentional symbol of a preoccupation with politics as well as an intentional slander of/against civil ethics and morality. There’s also a fear that more men will flock to Jesus as the essence of all that is true and good. For many it’s a mere means or quest to secure freedom and Liberty….for a blessed few it is forgiveness, deliverance and salvation.

I know Canada has it bad and we are even growing numb here in America. But these things are a refining fire. Separating the wheat. Some days I’m a begger and other days I’m my own utter demise…. But I’m hanging on for dear life. Finally I’m starting to fear God again…..more than anything else. What else is there that won’t disappoint? This is obvious now more than ever.


Originally Posted by Pilgrim
All this new terminology and new ideas which seem to occupy your thinking reminds of what Paul experienced at Mars Hill...

Quote
Acts 17:18-21 (ASV) 18 And certain also of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, What would this babbler say? others, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached Jesus and the resurrection. 19 And they took hold of him, and brought him unto the Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new teaching is, which is spoken by thee? 20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean. 21 (Now all the Athenians and the strangers sojourning there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell or to hear some new thing.)
To me, the similarities are two: 1) Far too many professing Christians spend time in the thinking and things of this world which in the vast majority of time are frivolous and even detrimental to their minds and souls. And, 2) The antidote is simple. Paul focused his entire life on the "old paths"; the Gospel and the inspired written Word of God which brings life and spiritual health to every believer. If these people spent even half the amount of time contemplating on the revealed truth of God which they do on every fad, new idea, trend, etc. which dominates this world, they would have far more profit and become far wiser and know that such things should be avoided. They are Satan's distraction and are meant to distract, diminish and even destroy those who belong to Christ.

As a side note, the majority of seminaries are guilty of this same trap. Professors and students alike spend countless and dangerous hours teaching and learning "new things" rather than focusing upon what God has written and established throughout centuries which bring freedom in Christ and separation from this dying world. Theses and dissertations MUST be a new 'perspective' on an old truth which in essence distorts that truth and/or contain something which no one else has dreamed of before. Uniqueness is NOT beneficial but conformity to the image of Christ which the Spirit works in every true believer. We are to be like Him. That is our goal and which should consume our every thought, word, and deed as individuals united to our Head who is all and all.

Last edited by Anthony C.; Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:22 PM.
Tom #57928 Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:43 PM
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A common theme in scriptures and human civilization is earthly prosperity and prestige vs forgiveness of sins and eternal life. How many of us, even God’s own, have gotten this wrong and repeatedly need to be straighten out.

Jesus did not come to elevate us in the here and now, he came to obliterate and restore us. This is a dangerous and necessary journey…. It’s not easy. It’s life or death. There’s no feeling good about ourselves outside of our undeserved blessings and mercies made sweeter by our devastating and pride destroying trials.

Pilgrim #57930 Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:41 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Thanks, I appreciate this.
It reminds me of how I must keep my mind on Christ.

I guess my point really is knowing how to biblically respond and act to the way
our governments and the left are treating Christians and the Church.

Do we ignore the vile immorality that is being passed on as true morality.
Do we ignore the fact that our Constitutions are being trampled on?

Bills are being passed, making Christian values “harmful..”?

Some of the Church closed down during lockdowns, because of their interpretation of Romans 13.
Saying that those who do not comply, are ruining their Christian witness.

That is why I bring up things like ‘Christian Nationalism’. Mainly because those are some of the response Christians are having to government overreach and the change of world views in society.

Tom

Tom #57932 Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:24 PM
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1. As long as you are free to vote, do so for those who will defend the Charter of Rights, etc. If there are none, use the "write in" option if it exists there.
2. Re: professing Christians' tantrums and worldly responses to these affairs, I would ignore them and not engage such people. Rarely if ever do positive results occur. Time is too short for such things, IMHO. My primary concern is how "I" think and act according to what knowledge and wisdom the Spirit gives me or withholds from me. If someone asks questions of me directly, I will respond accordingly IF I have any knowledge of the subject. Otherwise, I remain silent.

Quote
Philippians 4:6-8 (ASV) 6 In nothing be anxious; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.


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Tom #57934 Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:06 PM
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Everyone is religious. We take it with us and it will eventually come out. Religious neutrality is a myth. Our idols and our true identities will eventually rise to the surface. We needn’t contemplate these things past our own hearts and souls. The rest is lip service and propaganda. Pagans, heathens, practical atheists, demons ….. they are all in the same boat. Arguments and debates won’t change a thing for better or worse. God knows what and who He will use….

If I were you, I would speak out when it matters most, for your faith and convictions, but do it in a God honoring way and with the right motives. Don’t worry about freedom or even persecution, speak out from a desire to honor and worship God…. If that makes you a Nationalist in the eyes of others, so be it. But putting pressure on your government officials for the right reasons I would think is acceptable. They do feel the pressure and God willing, will capitulate. But these battles are going to be commonplace. We will not have it easy…..

The battle is not against mere men. The battle is spiritual- from within, without, and the greater domain.

Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:33 PM.

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