Donations for the month of January


We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Posts: 142
Joined: April 2013
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,769
Posts54,849
Members974
Most Online732
Jan 15th, 2023
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,441
Tom 4,511
chestnutmare 3,319
J_Edwards 2,615
John_C 1,863
Wes 1,856
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 5
John_C 3
Recent Posts
Why or how did Jesus not know the time of his 2nd coming?
by DiscipleEddie - Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:20 AM
Galatians 5:16 Question
by tomatoetom - Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:21 AM
Ash Wednesday
by Pilgrim - Wed Feb 14, 2024 10:25 AM
Hamas and Growing Support
by Tom - Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:55 PM
A Question about This Forum
by DiscipleEddie - Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:15 PM
God Deals in Remnants
by ATulipNotADaisy - Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:36 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
#58167 Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:35 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Likes: 2
Addict
OP Offline
Addict
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Likes: 2
I came across the following sentiment:

Quote
God the Father reveals Christ in His time. The Lord will not forsake the works of His own hands.

The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands. Psalms 138:8

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6”

I believe this person is confusing and confounding a pre-regenerate elect person with an unbiblical concept that a man can be regenerate and ‘not have Christ revealed.’

Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:36 PM.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 13
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 13
Anthony, I have thought about this and to be frank, I do not want to jump to conclusions without little more context.

Tom

Tom #58172 Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:24 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Likes: 2
Addict
OP Offline
Addict
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Likes: 2
Can you be a regenerate unbeliever?

I know you can be a believer without assurance. I also know you can have temporary faith (which I ultimately liken to practical atheism - no work of the holy spiritual involved ).

But I’m focused on the idea that you can be regenerate and still need Christ to be revealed. Isnt faith evidence of regeneration?

Last edited by Anthony C.; Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:33 AM.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 13
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 13
I said what I did, mainly because I am not sure, that means what you think it means.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 57
That appears to be "presumptive regeneration" which mainly is taught in the more classic Dutch Reformed Churches. Berkhof, in his Systematic Theology wrote about "covenant children" having the "seed of faith", and upon that they are to be baptized. The premise is that "in time" that faith will express itself and the child will join the church, i.e., he/she will become a communicate member. Not only is this totally unbiblical but it also denies the 5th Head of Doctrine; The Perseverance/Preservation of the Saints. How? Because they admit that it is possible for one of these covenant children to repudiate the faith and become apostate.


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
1 member likes this: Anthony C.
Pilgrim #58181 Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:38 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Likes: 2
Addict
OP Offline
Addict
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 478
Likes: 2
Say for argument sake, the person who I quoted used the phrase, “God the Father reveals Christ in His time”, to describe the phenomenon of a “covenant” child coming to (saving) faith.

I don’t like the phrase, “reveals Christ”, to describe regeneration because it implies that a covenant child was merely not paying attention, almost like in a coma-like state, and never heard Jesus Christ preached from the Word of God….

Is there a better way to express the inner work of the Holy Spirit in such an instance? Is this particular phenomenon directly addressed in scripture?

This is the closest thing I can find to a type of assurance…

“Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
Proverbs 22:6 (ESV)

Last edited by Anthony C.; Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:44 PM.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 57
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 57
Last, first. smile

Quote
“Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
This is far too often misunderstood and thus used incorrectly as giving parents an assurance that if they are good parents and teach their children, then they surely will be saved, or at least live a moral life. nope The text is actually a warning to parents. The original literally says, "Train up a child in the manner of his own way, and he will not depart from it."

Okay, back to first. You are looking for something in Scripture that shows the working of the Holy Spirit in bringing a child (covenant) or otherwise? That's easy... How about Saul of Tarsus? There is a true covenant child who hated God and especially even the thought that Jesus of Nazareth was God incarnate. Thus he took great pains to hunt down Christians and had them executed or thrown into prison. He knew the Scriptures well, having been a disciple of Gamaliel. Yet because he was unregenerate, his mind could not comprehend the truth and his heart was darkened. He was DEAD in trespasses and sins and under the just judgment of God. But God from eternity had chosen Paul to be His divine ambassador to the truth of Jesus Christ. Yet, it wasn't until God struck Him down on the road to Damascus (regeneration) that being blinded his eyes were open to the truth and he was genuinely converted. It wasn't until after Christ personally taught him for 3 years that he was commissioned to be an Apostle and begin the work for which the Spirit led him to do. (Gal 1:10ff) No regeneration, no faith. Regeneration is an instantaneous working of the Spirit recreating a dead soul, and thus being "made alive" faith no less instantaneously is expressed, being the life-breath of the new nature created. There is no 'delay' between regeneration, repentance and faith. grin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
1 member likes this: Anthony C.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 95 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
PaulWatkins, His Unworthy Son, Nahum, TheSojourner, Larry
974 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
February
S M T W T F S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29
Today's Birthdays
Myshkin
Popular Topics(Views)
1,501,903 Gospel truth