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Joined: Jun 2003
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Plebeian
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Plebeian
Joined: Jun 2003
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Don't know if it will be much help to you but here are my thoughts on your preface. My suggested corrections are within brackets. Timmopussycat
My Preface
The one sole sentence in Laurence M. Vance’s book, The Other Side of Calvinism, I find completely true and meaningful for this refutation of his work is, “The first and only resource, as well as the final authority for everything said herein, is of course the Holy Bible.” Yes, there are some other parts of his book that are entertaining.
(The previous sentence is unnecessary and a backhanded compliment that could be easily read as sarcasm. Sarcasm is best used not in introductory material, but has a better effect when you are actually demonstrating the error of the proposition you wish to correct.)
But he alone departs from the Scriptures and fails to use it first and only as his authority.
(The word "alone" creates a problem. Is Vance the only theologian who departs from Scripture….? You seem to be trying to say that Vance departs from Scripture alone which is something quite different.)
His attempt to discredit the truth stands not in Sola Scriptura, that is the Scriptures Alone, but Scriptura Sola Vance-ology, or the Scripture, plus Vance-ology Alone. His book would better be named A Dance with Vance, because and he side-steps and spins his reader into waltzes and jigs (confusion, 1 Tim 1:3-4) instead of being transformed and renewed by the truth (Rom 12:2). He asks the reader to consider incomplete histories, his present-day interpretations of words written thousands of years ago,
(His "present day interpretations of words" is ambiguous. Does Vance propose totally novel translations of key words. If yes, a couple of pertinent questions might be "Why do the standard lexicons not give these meanings? And whether the answer to my first question is yes or no, it will be good to ask why Vance's proposed alternative translations are better than the ones usually accepted? Then demonstrate that they are not.)
and his dogma of theories and philosophies that support Arminianism and other works of heresy (i.e. Semi-Pelagianism).
What I will ask the reader to do in this book is to consider the Biblical interpretations of the Scripture as interpreted in and of itself (2 Tim 3:16-17). For this we will need to explore some of the original languages, because biblical words have defined meanings as meant by their usage, history, and context. For instance the KJV of Paul’s letter to the Corinthians states:
1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
Some well meaning soles (sp - souls) have preached that it is important and necessary to marry another or else they would burn in Hell. One may immediately ask, what then would be the case for Christ, since He did not marry another? Is He in Hell? God Forbid the thought! No! A hundred times, no!. (delete unnecessary period after exclamation mark) Positively Not (not), another would say! What then is our answer? A simple exploration into the Greek meaning for the word burn here will suffice. The Greek word for burn is ‘puroo’ (purovw). ‘Puroo’ means, to burn with fire, to set on fire, kindle, to be on fire, to burn, to be incensed, indignant and is used ‘fugitively,’ meaning it is better to marry than to burn with passion. John McArthur states it this way:
The term means “to be inflamed,” and is best understood as referring to strong passion (cf. Rom. 1:27). A person cannot live a happy life, much less serve the Lord, if he is continually burning with sexual desire—even if the desire never results in actual immorality. And in a society such as Corinth’s, or ours, in which immorality is so prevalent and accepted, it is especially difficult not to succumb to temptation.
As John Calvin states, “And to retain Paul’s metaphor, it is one thing to burn and another to feel heat. Hence what Paul here calls burning, is not a mere slight feeling, but a boiling with lust, so that you cannot resist.” As one can see the meaning of the terms, the way they are meant in context and usage, are quite different than what some have interpreted the verse to actually mean (to burn in Hell vs. to burn with passion). Thus, our study shall allow the Scripture to teach us. At times we will need assistance as in the verse above. But always, our meanings will be established by the Bible’s usage of terms and not man’s inclinations of what he may think they mean.
In Vance’s preface of The Other Side of Calvinism he suggests there is a shortage of works against Calvinism. While I would state that I do not agree with all forms of Calvinism, and to those I write against also, (While I do not agree that all that calls itself Calvinism is true Calvinism and write against those perversions of it with which I disagree,) true Calvinism need not have one word written against it, because it is the Bible. I do not agree with everything John Calvin, Martin Luther, and others have written about the faith once delivered to the saints. But I do agree with the synopsis of the five points of Calvinism, commonly called TULIP, against the five points of Arminianism. Vance defends the heresy of Arminianism. I will defend the truth of Calvinism. I will defend the Bible. I must be for Christ (Mat 12:30). I must be for His Word (John 1:1).
Where, Dr. Laurence Vance criticizes certain saints and finds their shortcomings, I will contend for their forgiveness and understanding (1 John 8-10).
(Your intent is not clear. If Vance has found genuine shortcomings in the writings of certain saints then those writings are in error. In such a case they need not forgiveness but correction. If Vance errs in his critiques, the writers he misjudges need not forgiveness but defense.)
Where, Vance admits not writing his work from a neutral perspective (Preface), I will contend for the truth, whether for or against the Calvinist viewpoint. It is only the truth of Christ that will set us free (John 8:36). Where Vance stretches for labeling (to label) everyone associated with Calvinism, I will call doctrines, theories, and philosophies not consistent with the Scripture what Paul called them in Galatians, “another gospel,” (Gal 1:6).
(How does Vance stretch to label everyone associated with Calvinism? Does he include 3 point, 4 point, 5 point and hyper Calvinists under the label Calvinism? You don't say)
Where Vance says Calvinism is a weak doctrine, I say I have two weapons. One, the errors of those that think they are strong (Gal 6:3). Two, and more important, the truth of that which is strong, the Word of God (Heb 4:12). Lastly, where Vance states and fantasizes that his work is balanced (Preface), I will show the real weight of it as a doctrine that is so heavy with untruth that it is accursed of God Himself (Gal 1:9). The issues at hand are that important! As Jude writes;
Jude 3-4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Some may say that I am too hard on Laurence Vance. I will state now for the record that I am not against Dr. Vance, but I am against what he contends is truth. I pray for Dr. Vance that his eyes may be opened unto the truth of the Holy Writ (Eph 1:15-22). While I have reason to believe Dr. Vance to be a sincere Christian, by some of what he has written, I do believe in the same voice (written, I also believe) that he is also sincerely wrong in his theological approach and interpretation of the Holy Scripture. Whether he is or is not a Christian though is not for me to judge (John 7:24). I ask Dr. Vance to judge his own work (1 Cor 11:31). I do believe though, and thus I pray for Dr. Vance, if one denies the Holy Scripture, if he contends for another gospel, if he spreads untruth, he denies Christ (John 1:1), and he is accursed (Gal 1:9). The Scripture expressly tells us:
Matthew 7:15-21 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
I ask the reader to judge the fruit of Vance’s work not as compared to how he has/is living his life, or even I in my life. That is far too low of a standard. I ask that you raise the standard to the highest level. Compare it with Scripture (Prov 3:5-6; Mat 11:28-30).
God, I pray for Thy wisdom and direction that this work may glorify Thee in the fulness of Thy glory (Eph 1; 3:14-21). I pray that this work will heal the brokenhearted, deliver the captives, give sight to the blind, and set at liberty them that are bruised, that it be acceptable to you Oh, Lord (Luke 4:18-19). May you open thus my eyes that I may speak and be understood and put aside all foolishness (1 Cor 1:17-21). I pray that I may have the same Spirit Paul had when he wrote:
Acts 20:26-30 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Nevertheless, Thy will be done Oh, Lord (Luke 11:2).
In Christ's love and service Timmopussycat
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Entire Thread
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A Refutation of The Other Side of Calvinism -LONG
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J_Edwards
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Wed Dec 26, 2001 11:02 PM
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Re: A Refutation of The Other Side of Calvinism -LONG
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Pilgrim
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Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:57 AM
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Thanks Pilgrim
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 27, 2001 9:31 AM
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Re: Thanks Pilgrim
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Tom
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Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:13 AM
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I had an E-mail
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 27, 2001 11:44 AM
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No church?
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James
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Sun Dec 30, 2001 4:48 PM
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Re: A Refutation of The Other Side of Calvinism -LONG
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MarieP
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Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:07 PM
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Re: A Refutation of The Other Side of Calvinism -LONG
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:03 PM
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Re: A Refutation of The Other Side of Calvinism -LONG
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fredman
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Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:23 PM
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Re: A Refutation of The Other Side of Calvinism -LONG
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 PM
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Dance with Vance
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:33 AM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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MarieP
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:48 AM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:55 AM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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MarieP
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:40 AM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:43 AM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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MarieP
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:02 AM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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fredman
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Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:58 PM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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MarieP
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Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:55 PM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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fredman
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Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:01 PM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:14 PM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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MarieP
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Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:39 PM
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Re: Dance with Vance
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gnarley
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Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:07 AM
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Re: A Refutation of The Other Side of Calvinism -LONG
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timmopussycat
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Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:57 PM
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