oops...sorry Wes, I somehow accidentally hit the submit button before I was finished with the previous message.
By the way, thanks so much for the welcome you offered me in your message. It is appreciated.
I also want to note that I in no way intended to be critical or harsh to yours or anyones post here in this thread. Honestly. I am in no postion to judge. I am of average intelligence at best and have not studied the Word or wise men as thourghly as I should.
Despite the fact that I am not a scholar I came to the reformed tradition (30 years ago) through a scholarly approach to neo-calvinism. So I am somewhat versed in the philosopy of Kuyper, Van Til and Dooyeweerd. In that teaching you come to know that Christians, even reformed ones, usually approach their philosphy of the public sector in terms of a secular attitude. Van Til calls it presuppositionialism. (Please understand that again, I am not assuming outright that that is how you view things). One tends to apply his secular dualism to his understanding of things that one thinks are "neutral" and not "religious" in nature. Dualism stems from a thomistic (old Roman Catholic) philosophy. Some forms of dualism are seeing seperate realms such as: faith and reason nature and grace Christ and culture church and world natural and supernatural philosophy and theology
The men I mentioned above teach that there is no neutrality. A thing is either for Christ or against it. All of life is "religious". There are no atheists at all. All men serve something. All men have a religion, philosophy and world view.
So what I am saying is that I always want to examine my beliefs in the light of the Word of God (first) and then my understanding of how that Word directs me to act.
To answer your specifc question of how your comments fit into what I said: (and again my assumptions of what you say may be totally wrong).
>When you take the rewards of their labors Calvin says in the institutes, "It may look to us that we can attain honor or riches through our own industry, or strenuous exertion, or through the favor of others; yet, it is certain that all these things are nothing themselves, and that we shall not make any headway by our insight or by our labors, but in so far as the Lord shall prosper both"
I take that to mean that neither you or I have earned whatever we have, but that it is a gift from God. One gets their "rewards" not from their labors but as a direct blessing of God.
So I did assume that the paragraph in which you mentioned that was the standard "conservative" party line. Perhaps you did not mean that at all, and if so I really do apologize. What I am saying is that we need to actually forget all our presuppositions and re-examine our beliefs in the context of the Word.
>Free markets, free trade, competitiveness, productivity, and ingenuity, are essential for the American economic engine...
Perhaps that is the case, but I want to make sure I have arrived at that viewpoint based on the Word since becoming regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and not on the secular values I was taught in which I was instructed to choose a "side" between liberalism or conservatism.
>It will take a moral revolution to turn this around again.
I could not agree more. Let us just be sure that the morals we refer to are based on the Word, not just the morals taught us by our secular social education.
>Let's face it America became great because it once was a nation built on freedom from the tyranny of Government intrusion.
Great from who's perspective? Mine or Jesus? Frankly I have reservations on the idea that the foundation of the U.S. was as you say it is. I think that it is possible that we have accepted those ideas because of our indoctrination to patriotism provided by our secular education. Their first priority is to produce a uniform citizenry. The care not one whit for the Word of God.
Whew, I know that I have been terribly long winded. Sorry 'bout that.
Also please understand that I am not some wacko radical. I am 49 years old and have always worked hard since I was 9 years old pulling weeds for neighbors, paper route, fast food worker, etc, up to adult jobs. I also obey the laws of the govt, I pay my taxes and do not cheat on them, I have voted in the last 21 straight primary elections and will have voted 21 straight years in the general elections come November if God wills it. In essance the govt. would consider me a good citizen. I do these things because I believe that the Word requires me to participate in this fashion. But the Word also requires that I be aware that I am made new in Christ. Not augmented, or made somewhat different, but NEW. Therefore I need to constantly reexamine my belief system. Unfortunately I often fail.
My wish for you is that God will continue to offer you many blessings.
