Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
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If there can be a temporary judgment for some children (i.e. death) then there may be eternal judgment (i.e. eternal death) for some (this does not mean that all children that die go to Hell. It is just a comparison). Psalms 51:5 is very clear saying, “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.” A child that dies without Christ goes to Hell. Can a child in some way receive Christ—yes (JB)….. Just after Christ wept for Jerusalem (Luke 19:41) and just prior to His cleansing of the Temple (Luke 19:45-46), Christ said, “For the days shall come upon thee, when thine enemies shall cast up a bank about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, and shall dash thee to the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation” (compare this with God’s judgment on Jerusalem’s children in Ezekiel 9:5). Thus, though we may say that God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:23; 33:11, Jesus wept, etc.) on one hand, on the other some (and if not for election all) wicked must be eternally condemned as God’s judgment and holiness are in the balance. The problem is that we just don’t believe the Word of God when it comes to judgment of some children! Some claim children do not understand that they have sinned, however, where does it say that a person must understand his sin fully to be judged a sinner? Some answer and say Deuteronomy 1:39 (i.e. Isaiah 7:16, 8:4). Rabbinic tradition places the age of accountability at twenty (Numbers 14:29-31; see Jerusalem Talmud tractate Sanhedrin, Bik. 2:1; Sanh. 11:7; b. Shab. 32b, and the Qumran Manual of Discipline). However, this age of accountability, as it is so often referred to, here refers to these “youth, children, and babies” not being able to make the decision (as their parents did) as to their parents rebellion (i.e. "national" sin of Israel), as they were compelled, by God’s law, to obey their parents. This however, does not mean they were without sin (innocent or guiltless). They still had the sin nature and some had eternal judgment. These “children” still suffered temporary judgment in the wilderness and we know that not all of them were elect from what happens further on in the Bible. Can an infant be saved? Calvin states ( Institutes of the Christian Religion), And, indeed, Christ was sanctified from earliest infancy, that he might sanctify his elect in himself at any age, without distinction. For as he, in order to wipe away the guilt of disobedience which had been committed in our flesh, assumed that very flesh, that in it he might, on our account, and in our stead, perform a perfect obedience, so he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, that, completely pervaded with his holiness in the flesh which he had assumed, he might transfuse it into us. If in Christ we have a perfect pattern of all the graces which God bestows on all his children, in this instance we have a proof that the age of infancy is not incapable of receiving sanctification. This, at least, we set down as incontrovertible, that none of the elect is called away from the present life without being previously sanctified and regenerated by the Spirit of God. [This strong assertion must be seen in its relationship to the question of the salvation of elect infants dying in infancy. If they are to have remission of sins, a new nature, and the blessing of eternal life, it is clear that they must be regenerated.] As to their objection that, in Scripture, the Spirit acknowledges no sanctification save that from incorruptible seed, that is, the word of God, they erroneously interpret Peter’s words, in which he comprehends only believers who had been taught by the preaching of the gospel (1 Pet. 1:23). We confess, indeed, that the word of the Lord is the only seed of spiritual regeneration; but we deny the inference that, therefore, the power of God cannot regenerate infants. This is as possible and easy for him, as it is wondrous and incomprehensible to us. It were dangerous to deny that the Lord is able to furnish them with the knowledge of himself in any way he pleases.
But faith, they say, cometh by hearing, the use of which infants have not yet obtained, nor can they be fit to know God, being, as Moses declares, without the knowledge of good and evil (Deut. 1:39). But they observe not that where the apostle makes hearing the beginning of faith, he is only describing the usual economy and dispensation which the Lord is wont to employ in calling his people, and not laying down an invariable rule, for which no other method can be substituted. Many he certainly has called and endued with the true knowledge of himself, by internal means, by the illumination of the Spirit, without the intervention of preaching. But since they deem it very absurd to attribute any knowledge of God to infants, whom Moses makes void of the knowledge of’ good and evil, let them tell me where the danger lies if they are said now to receive some part of that grace, of which they are to have the full measure shortly after. For if fulness of life consists in the perfect knowledge of God, since some of those whom death hurries away in the first moments of infancy pass into life eternal, they are certainly admitted to behold the immediate presence of God. Those, therefore, whom the Lord is to illumine with the full brightness of his light, why may he not, if he so pleases, irradiate at present with some small beam, especially if he does not remove their ignorance, before he delivers them from the prison of the flesh? I would not rashly affirm that they are endued with the same faith which we experience in ourselves, or have any knowledge at all resembling faith (this I would rather leave undecided); [It is instructive to take note of Calvin’s careful restraint and sense of proportion in the previous few sentences. With respect to the question of the manner in which elect infants dying in infancy are saved, Calvin, while presupposing their need and the Spirit’s supply of regeneration (see note on section 18), makes no definite assertion concerning the presence or absence of faith in them. This position of indecision (as Calvin terms it) is commendable, precisely because it does not presume beyond the teaching of Scripture.] but I would somewhat curb the stolid arrogance of those men who, as with inflated cheeks, affirm or deny whatever suits them. Let us see if this gets the conversation going a little. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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Babies and Election
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doulos
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Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:31 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:05 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:52 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Wes
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:02 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:15 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Tom
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Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:03 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Peter
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Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:15 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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D.J.
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Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:11 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Peter
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Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:02 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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J_Edwards
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Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:38 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Robin
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:27 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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J_Edwards
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:48 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Robin
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:34 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Joe k
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Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:52 PM
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Pilgrim
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Re: Babies and Election
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Joe k
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Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:44 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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John_C
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Re: Babies and Election
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Pilgrim
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Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:51 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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doulos
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Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:06 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Pilgrim
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Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:22 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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doulos
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Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:40 PM
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Re: Babies and Election
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J_Edwards
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Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:08 AM
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Re: Babies and Election
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Wes
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:43 PM
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