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Annie Oakley
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Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
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A conversation between Charles Simeon and John Wesley. "Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers. But before I consent to begin the combat, with your permission I will ask you a few questions. Pray, Sir, do you feel yourself a depraved creature, so depraved that you would never have thought of turning to God, if God had not first put it into your heart?
Yes, I do indeed.
And do you utterly despair of recommending yourself to God by anything you can do; and look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ?
Yes, solely through Christ.
But, Sir, supposing you were at first saved by Christ, are you not somehow or other to save yourself afterwards by your own works?
No, I must be saved by Christ from first to last.
Allowing, then, that you were first turned by the grace of God, are you not in some way or other to keep yourself by your own power?
No.
What then, are you to be upheld every hour and every moment by God, as much as an infant in its mother's arms?
Yes, altogether.
And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom?
Yes, I have no hope but in Him.
Then, Sir, with your leave I will put up my dagger again; for this is all my Calvinism; this is my election, my justification by faith, my final perseverance: it is in substance all that I hold, and as I hold it; and therefore, if you please, instead of searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention between us, we will cordially unite in those things wherein we agree." (Moule, 79f)
The blog author further writes, But don't take this to mean that Simeon pulled any punches when expounding Biblical texts. He is very forthright in teaching what the Bible teaches and calling error by its real name. But he is jealous of not getting things out of balance
Wish Wesley had formulated his theology in a way that agreed with his confession in this conversation. Sadly he didn't.
The Chestnut Mare
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Entire Thread
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Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Johan
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:21 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:11 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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John_C
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:35 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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chestnutmare
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:34 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Johan
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:30 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Tom
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:20 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Johan
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:48 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Tom
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Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:47 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Johan
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Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:53 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Peter
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:10 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:26 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Peter
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:57 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:45 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Kurt Hutchison
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:57 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:21 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Kurt Hutchison
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:11 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:51 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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John_C
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:59 AM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:34 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Johan
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:12 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:14 PM
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Re: Arminianism: Dead or Alive?
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John_C
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Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:29 PM
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