The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Hedonism

Mike,

If you don't have time to read and learn, then why ARE you here? Discussion for the sake of discussion isn't something I have time for. We have had people like you on here by the droves and the discussions were most always fruitless because they weren't interested in even learning what Calvinism actually teaches, something which you are clearly ignorant.

What does "ALL MEN" mean? I can tell you that "world" [Grk: kosmos has at least 7 different meanings in Scripture. You tell me which meaning should be understood in John 3:16.

CONTEXT, context, context, Mike!! A text out of context is nothing more than pretext. If nothing else, IF God willed that all men be saved, then all men would be saved. God's "will" is not synonymous with a "wish". Do you REALLY want to know what "all men" means in that passage? Then you are going to have to read this: An Exegetical Study of 1Timothy 2:4.

I totally disagree that "God loves all men"! God is beneficent toward all men. The Scriptural word in the Greek is philanthropos (Titus 3:4; cf. Matt 5:45-48). Now, if one could show even one passage of Scripture that says that God does not love all men, then the premise that He does falls to the ground, right? Well, methinks I can do better than just one:

Psalms 5:5-6 (ASV) "The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man."

Psalms 11:5-7 (ASV) "Jehovah trieth the righteous; But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup. For Jehovah is righteous; he loveth righteousness: The upright shall behold his face."

Proverbs 6:16-19 (ASV) "There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood; A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief, A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren."

Malachi 1:2-4 (ASV) "I have loved you, saith Jehovah. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother, saith Jehovah: yet I loved Jacob; but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and [gave] his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are beaten down, but we will return and build the waste places; thus saith Jehovah of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and men shall call them The border of wickedness, and The people against whom Jehovah hath indignation for ever."

Romans 9:11-13 (ASV) "for [the children] being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Case, point, match!

The present active participle of pisteuo is translated as "the ones believing (continually)", "believing ones". The interpretation of pisteuwn in John 3:16 demands that it be understood as "the elect" for it was God's eternal purpose to send Christ for them so that they would not perish. Secondly, only the elect possess true saving faith in Christ which is one of the fruits of regeneration (cf. Deut 30:6; Ezk 36:26,27; Jh 1:12,13; 10:16,17 cp. 10:26; Acts 13:48; 18:27; Rom 9:29,30; Eph 2:8,9; Phil 1:29; 2Tim 2:25,26).

BTW, I have no knowledge of the "bluebible.com" or whatever that site was you referenced. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps there are people in this world who actually read, study and memorize God's inspired written Word for it is most important to them? Read Psalm 119 and perhaps you will come to understand how some of us here spend their time. (cf. Jh 8:31,32)