Originally Posted by Tom
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Well, I give you credit for standing your ground in enemy territory takethat I must really like that 'smile' since I use it a lot....

I'm not looking to get into a debate about RCC's claim to Apostolic succession , the primacy of Peter & whether he reigned in Rome and many other points of contention between Catholics & Protestants...

Just to clarify about Mary, I would consider the belief that she was sinless and bodily ascended to heaven supernatural claims that fell outside the miraculous virgin birth. Obviously prayers of intercession to Mary & saints would fall short of worship. Although I think that becomes a natural yet unintended consequence....

And again, I'm not looking to argue these matters. Where there is good will between members, and I feel there to be so, these discussions usually end in each side praying for the other....that's where I'll let it lie on my end.

AC

It is a misunderstanding to say that all (many do) RC’s worship Mary, yet like you indicated it is an unintended consequence. The thing however, that I would pursue on this matter is that Christ is the only one that makes intersession between the saints and God. We should never pray to or through anyone other than Jesus Christ to make intersession for us. Of course we also know that the Spirit makes intersession for us. (Rom. 8:26-27)
I have talked to some very knowledgeable RCs that make it quite clear that they do indeed pray through both Mary and other saints to make intersession for them and their loved ones. I can’t remember their justification for doing this, but they appeal to tradition, not Scripture itself.

Tom,

Sorry, but actually Catholics do appeal to Scripture in their stance on the mediation of Mary and the Saints.

In Mary's case, they look at the Vulgate and they misinterpret Genesis; in saying that: "I will put enmity between you and the woman and that SHE will crush thy head." ------ alluding to Mary rather then Christ.

We then see Old Testament typology focusing on Mary

We then see the misinterpretation of the Wedding Feast at Cana where Jesus "obeys" the will of his mother.... alluding to Mary's being the mediator of grace.

We then see in Jesus telling John to "behold thy mother" while He was on the cross; ---- alluding to the establishment of Mary being a mediator between the saints and Christ.

We then see the misinterpretation of Revelation 12 being about Mary instead of the Church....

So it is very clear to Catholics..... especially Catholic Religious, especially monastics that it is proven from Scripture that Mary is and should be the mediator of all graces.

Dave

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16