The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum The PCA Welcomes Biologos to the next General Assembly

Jobeluan,

I would like to make a few comments concerning your response, especially since you evoked the name of one of my "heroes" as a basis for your opinion(s).

1. Whether Dr. Gerstner's decision to remain in an apostate denomination was prudent or not can be debated. Personally, I believe he erred in staying as long as he did. Martin Luther had no intention of leaving the Roman State Church, but rather to reform it. He soon learned that was not going to happen and was both forced to leave and voluntarily left. Secondly, Dr. Gerstner, with whom I have had the privilege of speaking with at length on several occasions, cannot be upheld as an example for the average church member in regard to making a decision to remain or leave a denomination. He was Professor of Church History at Pittsburg Xenia Seminary and thus not subject to the preaching and/or teaching of the Liberals who dominated the denomination. Contrariwise, a member of a church whose leadership is preaching/teaching heresy is subject to them on at least a weekly basis. Dr. Gerstner was a man of influence, which R.C. Sproul, Sr. can testify, for it was Dr. Gerstner who 'dragged' him into his office and informed him of what was going on in that school and to prepare himself for a rough road should he choose to stay. Sproul has many humorous stories he loves to relate concerning his stay at Pittsburg Xenia and the relationship which developed between himself and Dr. Gerstner. Bottom line... the regular church member is NOT to submit himself/herself to the authority and teaching of a heretical elder/pastor.

2. I remember well, having been there personally, the vote cast at Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, on the issue of leaving the PCUSA. It was a unanimous vote by the eldership and the membership to leave. They were surely justified in departing that heretical denomination to which the church had to submit according to denominational judgments and doctrine. They could not do so without denying Christ and the will of God as revealed in the Bible. Further, I was a member of 7th Reformed Church, which was affiliated with the RCA, another apostate denomination. They remained in the denomination for many years... However, they did so while refusing to comply with the 'official' denominational doctrines, which were contrary to the Three Forms of Unity, and they refused to pay the required financial "quota" to the denomination which would have been used to support the denomination's apostate schools. Rather, they sent that money to WTS in Philadelphia, which was still somewhat conservative during that time. Eventually, however, things came to a head and the church voted to withdraw from the RCA by an overwhelming majority vote.

3. I agree with you on the procedure which a member of a local church should pursue before leaving a church. If one is a member of a Presbyterian system, then it is required that an overture be made to the Session whereby the issue(s) may be discussed. If there is no satisfactory resolution, then an overture can be made to the Presbytery. Historically, rarely are the complaints of the laity successfully, when charges are made against an elder, especially in regard to doctrinal issues. But that is the way that system works and it should be followed. In an independent Congregational/Baptist setting, the process is much simpler and I believe more biblical. There, the member should meet with the Elder(s) and attempt to resolve the matter. If there is no resolution, then leaving is permitted.

4. This is where I MUST take serious issue with you. You are confusing God's sovereignty, aka: decretive will and providence with man's responsibility, aka: God's preceptive will; biblical mandates. God used Cyrus as His chosen servant to bring punishment upon a rebellious and sinful nation, but he did so by his own initiative and wrong motives which was a sin against God. Likewise, God is surely in full control of the apostasizing of the Church throughout history, but it is the responsibility of those who are His to defend the truth, to excommunicate those who reject it and/or its right practice, or to disassociate themselves from the local visible part of the Church when it has gone astray. God uses means to accomplish His will. There are plentiful injunctions in Scripture that believers are to have nothing to do with darkness, to remove those who preach another Gospel, to cast out heretics and profligates from the assembly. And when the leadership is guilty of such, then one is to leave and not be subject to their vain authority and teachings. A "Let go and let God" attitude is not only naïve, it is contrary to the will of God.

Secondly, how can you in good conscience lump the PCA, OPC, OCRC, CREC, RBC, URC, PR, ERPC together as if they were on equal footing? Never mind the vast differences in doctrine among them, they can hardly be seen as equals in that the PCA, OPC and URC, for example began as conservative denominations. The CREC, however, was founded upon a damnable heretical basis, i.e., a denial of Sola Fide; justification by faith alone in Christ Alone as formulated by all the Protestant Confessions which came out of the Reformation. If someone is part of that denomination (CREC) then they should leave. It is true, however, that the CREC does not have a Presbyterian form of government but rather it is more 'advisory' in nature, thus there is no requirement to embrace FV, paedocommunion, and other heretical doctrines to be a member. Prudence, in my opinion, would strongly suggest that it would not be in the best interest of any local church to be associated with this apostate organization/denomination. This would be equally true of the EPC and such denominations.

Again, there is a significance difference between the actions to be considered for Elders/Deacons and lay members. As long as the local church leadership holds to sound doctrine and practice, then a member should in most cases remain. But if the leadership is preaching/teaching heretical doctrine and refuses to repent of those views after several confrontations, then the member is obligated to remove himself/herself from that assembly.