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You said: Perhaps you should explain how your perception of the modern church has concluded that it lacks love? I say: My perceptions are limited to one man’s “part time” view of the subject and therefore not really important. God’s word on this subject is infinitely more accurate and important: Matt 24:9-14 Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. NASU Rev 2:2-5 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; and you have perseverance and have endured for My name's sake, and have not grown weary. 'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 'Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place — unless you repent. NASU Rev 3:15-17 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. NASU
You said: Even more helpful would be if you stated your definition of Biblical love. That would certainly go a long way to then considering your concern of the lack of love in the modern church. I say: I do not have “a definition” of Christian Love. I believe the Holy Spirit has helped me construct a summary. The summary was to be posted in this forum but it got posted in the open forum some time ago. The definitions that matter to this post are the definitions of love in the following verses: 1 John 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. NASU The Greek word for love that appears underlined in the above verse is the word agape (ag-ah'-pay). It is defined as “from NT:25; love, i.e. affection or benevolence; specially (plural) a love-feast;KJV - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love” in Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. 1 John 3:14-15 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. NASU The Greek word for love that appears underlined in the above verse is the word agapao (ag-ap-ah'-o) and is defined as “perhaps from agan (much) [or compare OT:5689]; to love (in a social or moral sense). KJV - (be-) love (-ed). Compare NT:5368.” in Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary  
You said: Your syllogism is grossly fractured and illogical, unfortunately. Your 4th statement is contradictory to your 2nd statement and it is seriously heretical: Love is the Holy Spirit. 1. God is Essential, 2. the Holy Spirit is God, 3. God is Love, 4. Love is the Holy Spirit, 5. Love is Essential I say: Hummm, I believe the thing you are missing is how the Holy Spirit works in the heart of the believer. When God’s love shines through us, it is the shinning of the Holy Spirit. In this sense, “love is the Holy Spirit” and in this sense “it is essential”. Matt 5:16 "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. NASU
You said: Simply copy/pasting 1Cor 13 doesn't work. It also might reveal a serious problem with your functional hermeneutic. I say: The copy/pasting of 1 Cor 13 was to give you examples the Holy Spirit shinning through the believe via love. Surely you don’t think all that is in 1 Cor 13 can be accomplished by man’s love do you?
You said: I believe that each and every mention of love in the Bible must be understood according to the CONTEXT in which it is found. After considering ALL of the appearances, allusions and examples of love from Genesis to Revelation, only then can one arrive at a true definition of love. I say: I see the issue differently. While being one of the most essential doctrines of the Bible, the doctrine of love is one of the simplest to understand and should be able to be understood by a child in my opinion. Matt 18:1-4 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” NASU I also say: A doctrine of love should contain “God’s love for man” and “man’s love for God”. Can you see the ingredients for a doctrine of love in the following passages? John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” NASU 2 Cor 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. NASU   You said: Perhaps it would help to remind you that no one can "love" someone or something that they do not know. Could your perception of a lack of love in the modern church be somehow related to this fact? I say: As I said above, my perception of the modern church does not matter. It is God’s perception of the modern Church that matters. With regard to ”the perception of the modern church”, I have a few questions: Mark 12:28-34 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions. NASU Mark 10:25-27 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." They were even more astonished and said to Him, "Then who can be saved?" Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God." NASU • What perception does the modern church have of the passages above? • Can they see that God has an “expectation” here? If so, what expectation do they see? Do they realize that it is essential to see this expectation “from God’s point of view” and not from a perspective based on their own personal experience with the commandment; to the point that they assume God does not really mean “all” when he says it? • Do they really believe “all” things are possible with God and the “all” includes “all” in the passage above? I also say: Matt 22:34-40 But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." NASU Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. NASU • Does the modern church know why Jesus said “on these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets”? • Do they know why Paul said “love is the fulfillment of the law”? • If the answer is no in both cases, that may be why they say “love not essential”
Prov 1:5 “A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel” NASU
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Entire Thread
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What is essential
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John_C
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:59 PM
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Re: What is essential
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Pilgrim
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:23 PM
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Re: What is essential
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li0scc0
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Pilgrim
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li0scc0
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Dennis
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John_C
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Pilgrim
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Dennis
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Robin
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Tom
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Pilgrim
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Dennis
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Wayne@purpose
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Pilgrim
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Wayne@purpose
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Pilgrim
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Wayne@purpose
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Wayne@purpose
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Wayne@purpose
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Pilgrim
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Wayne@purpose
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Tom
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Anonymous
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Wayne@purpose
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Pilgrim
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Wayne@purpose
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