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Plebeian
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Plebeian
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I think we’re talking past each other. You said:
“How does this text fit with your view that Christ loved His enemies and we are to love our enemies but neither Christ nor believers our to hate our enemies?”
My position from the beginning of this discussion is that I don’t believe that “love” and “hate” are mutually exclusive terms in the Scripture. God can both love and hate the same object. I believe that this is also true for believers, as there is a sense that the believer despises all workers of iniquity. The benevolence that believers are to show to unbelievers is called love in Scripture, and so it seems logically that you would also have to admit that both “love” and “hate” are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Concerning the BAG lexicon’s definition: I have no problem with the definitions that you provided. God rejects reprobate sinners because He despises and is repulsed by them. I think we’re making a distinction without a real difference.
You said:
“[S]ince it is an indisputable fact that God hates sinners, His wrath is relentless upon them, in fact He cannot even look upon them without being filled with anger because He is infinitely holy…”
I agree with this statement. I think you only believe that it’s inconsistent with what I’m saying because you cannot reconcile simultaneous love and hate.
Question in regards to God’s “hatred for the workers of iniquity”: Does God hate all unjustified sinners, both elect (prior to faith) and reprobate? If Yes, how do you reconcile His eternal love for the elect? If no, how do you reconcile that we were “children of wrath, just as the others”? I would pose that they cannot be reconciled unless God can simultaneously practice both love and hatred.
Again, let me reiterate, I believe the Scriptures and experience demonstrate that we express love differently to different people. The love I have for my wife is particular and despises all others. The love God has for His elect is particular and despises all others. Therefore, it seems silly to create a dichotomy between different kinds of love when our modus operandi is to express love differently to different people.
You also make the argument for your understanding of God’s hatred because He is infinitely holy. I agree. However, He is also infinitely loving, infinitely just, infinitely merciful. How do we understand an infinite being with multiple absolutes? I am hesitant to make an argument like yours since it seems to take one of His attributes without fully taking into account the incomprehensibility of God.
At the bottom of this, I believe our understandings of God’s love in relation to the topic at hand are irreconcilable because we are starting from a different premise. In summary, if I’ve understood you correctly, you are arguing that love and hate are a dichotomy, I am arguing that they can be simultaneous. I do believe, however, that what is irreconcilable has to do more with vocabulary than concept. I think we mostly agree conceptually.
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Entire Thread
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God's love
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Tim
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Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:11 AM
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Re: God's love
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:42 AM
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Re: God's love
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Tim
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Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:34 PM
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Re: God's love
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:16 PM
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Re: God's love
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Tim
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Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:04 PM
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Re: God's love
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:13 PM
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Re: God's love
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Tim
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:13 AM
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Re: God's love
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Pilgrim
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:21 AM
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Re: God's love
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Tim
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Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:32 PM
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Re: God's love
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:07 PM
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Tim
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Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:34 AM
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Re: God's love
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:29 AM
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Tim
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Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:26 PM
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:58 PM
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Tim
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:15 AM
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Re: God's love
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Pilgrim
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:49 PM
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Tim
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:45 PM
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:17 PM
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