The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Did Adam Fall or Did He Jump?

Joe,

What evidence is there that before the Fall, conception would have been immediate. Or, is there evidence that conception not being immediate was one of the results of the Fall. I can't think of any verses off the top of my head that would lead to this conclusion.

Thanks,
John

First, there is no evidence. Everything in this thread is speculation at best. Second, since there was not yet a Fall, IMHO everything in the reproductive systems would have been operating at A1 and thus a somewhat immediacy in conception would have been the norm. God had given not only the mandate to be fruitful and multiply, but IMHO the perfect means to do this as well.

Well, I can agree that Adam and Eve, being created in sinlessness had perfectly working reproductive systems, however, conception would depend upon the woman's reproductive cycle, wouldn't it? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And.... methinks it would be good to add that a woman only gets pregnant according to the providential working of God. Thus, even with perfect reproductive systems in both Adam and Eve, they could have gone childless for 100's of years, should that have been the Lord's will.

In His Grace,

Yes, God is the one providentially in charge and He is also the One who gave the divine mandate to be fruitful and multiply. IMHO, a 100 year time is unthinkable. God gave the mandate, He provided the means, providing there would have been no fall, there would have been somewhat immediate conception. I also do not think that the original woman's reproductive cycle would have been 100 years. I do believe Gen 4 sheds allot of light on all this as Adam and Eve, even after the curse, had many children prior to Seth (at least Cain, Abel, and one woman). Additionally, there is a number of other births to Cain's side of the family prior to Seth being born (recorded in Gen 4). Thus, the 100 year lag time looks very doubtful to me, but again it is all speculation.

Joe,

You missed the point I was trying to make; i.e., the theoretical immediacy of Eve conceiving really doesn't bear upon when the Fall could have taken place. What I actually wrote was:

they could have gone childless for 100's of years, should that have been the Lord's will.

Remember, I am of the opinion that the Fall took place on Sunday, the Sabbath day, the first full day after the creation was completed. And yes, all this is pure speculation.

In His Grace,

I agree that if had been the Lord's will they could have been childless for 100s, or even 1000s of years. IMHO this is a given. My point was I do not think that was God's will as evidenced from the other accounts of births in Scripture.

I was thinking that if conception was always immediate before the Fall, then if one assumes there had been no Fall and so no one is dying, the earth would soon be overun with people. It seems there would have to have been some point where God would have had to slow down the rate of births. Plus, it seems that would have meant that Eve (and all women after her) would pretty much be pregnant every day of their life after they reached a child-bearing age. I'm speculating too, of course.

John

Pilgrim
Of course I agree with you on that, but I think I can also add to that something that many Christians probably will not agree with.
I believe it is safe to say that a logical conclusion of that is that even women or teen aged girls, who become pregnant via rape, become pregnant according to the providential working of God.
Of course if sin never entered into the picture, things like rape wouldn’t be a problem.

Tom

Here is where the doctrine of election needs to be understood as eternal in the mind of God. If there had been no fall, IMHO there were still a certain number of the elect and thus over crowding would have never been a problem. IMHO at an appointed time the race would have become like the angels in child bearing--i.e. not being able to have children for the numerical and geographical images of God would have taken over the world to the glorification of God alone--who has all glory, but is yet still glorified by the accomplishment of His will in all the earth. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hmm,

That's an interesting position. I'll have to think about that one a little bit more.

John