The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum What is the proper response?

I suppose our two differing perspectives would rest upon how you would define, "Orthodox". If you are using it in a broad way, i.e., Christian vs. non-Christian religions, then I could understand your point. If however, "Orthodox" is used to distinguish between those Protestant Churches which are mainly confessional, i.e., they adhere to and practice the doctrines of the major confessions which came out of the Protestant Reformation, e.g., Augsberg, Belgic, Canons of Dordt, 39 Articles, WCF, Savoy, LBC, etc., and all other churches/denominations which appeared from the mid 1800's onward, then this is an entirely different matter.

It is my contention, that the overwhelming majority of "evangelical" churches today are NOT preaching a "Saving" Gospel, but rather "another gospel" (cf. 2Cor 11:4; Gal 1:7-9; et al). See these articles:

Another Gospel, by John Cheeseman
The Gospel and Evangelicalism: An Assessment, by William Webster
Two Views of the Gospel, by Will Metzger
Decisional Regeneration, by James E. Adams.
What is the Gospel?, by Lorraine Beottner
What is it to Preach the Gospel?, by Henry Mahan
Another Gospel, by Arthur W. Pink
Modern Evangelism Unmasked, by William F. Bell

In His Grace,

So did I. And I still feel that way. Being a Calvinist does not diminish our Lord's command to go and preach to all the nations. Yes, God must regenerate the heart of the sinner before he can be saved. Yes, God has predetermined who will be saved and who will not be saved. But that is not any excuse for laziness on our part. There are lots of wrong ways to evangelize, however. Holding up John 3:16 at a football game or "dive bombing for Jesus" are just a couple of those.

I recommend you read Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J. I. Packer, as well as Tell the Truth by Will Metzger.

Also, there are some very good articles here on the Highway. Go here and click on the button labelled Evangelism.

Amen. I agree. I don't want to down play evangilism. I am still very active in my evangelical ministry. I do believe that we are all called to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

My question is more on how much and what is the right way of doing it? That's all.

I found this on The Threshold and I thought I would share it with you.

Xenos Christian Fellowship
Christian Principles Unit 1
Soteriology: Calvinism & Arminianism

Implications for Evangelism

Calvinism

Positive:

"Since Christ has elected people to salvation, I can persevere in witnessing with the confidence that I will be fruitful." Bill Bright, and many other effective missionaries have been motivated in this way.

Nagative:

"If God has already decided who will be saved and irresistibly calls them, does it really matter whether I witness or not?" This was the logic of those who told William Carey, "Sit down, young man! If God wants to save the people in India, he can well do so without your help."
William Carey himself was a Calvinist.

Arminianism

Positive:

"I am motivated to share my faith because I know that more will be saved if I am faithful as Christ's ambassador." The logic of Arminianism makes it easy for Christians to believe that evangelism is both a privilege and a responsibility.
The same logic applies in Calvinism. If we are more faithful in sharing the word, we will see more people get saved. God’s election does not mean he doesn’t use us to achieve his purpose. Basically, if we share the faith, more will accept because God has predestined more. If we are lazy, it means he did not predestine more, but we can still be held responsible for our disobedience as the Bible says.

Negative:

"Evangelism is a heavy burden since my friend's salvation depends on my witness." Arminians need to be careful to fully emphasize God's will and non-Christians' responsibility as they evangelize. Unless we remember this, we can become unhealthily anxious, taking on more responsibility for people's salvation than is rightfully ours.

I believe that this thread has been an awesome way for me to dive deeper into a more serious study on Evangelism. Once again, this forum has pointed us into the right direction and supplied us with good links.

I have read J.I. Packer's Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God. But has been almost a year now and I think that I will read it again. Thank you Semper. I found this quote from J.I. Packer that I thought I would share.

"forcing tactics can only do damage, perhaps incalculable damage, to men's souls . . . Evangelism must rather be conceived as a long-term enterprise of patient teaching and instruction, in which God's servants seek simply to be faithful in delivering the gospel message and applying it to human lives, and leave it to God's Spirit to draw men to faith through this message in his own way and at his own speed"( A Quest For Godliness , 164).

- J.I. PACKER

I have made some mistakes in the past and I have felt guilt and frustration over them when it came to my witnessing. I have turned some people off, lead some to believe that I'm a religeous fanatic, but most of all, I had at one point taken too much time and attention away from my family, who I believe should be my main ministry. I agree with Packer when he says: Evangelism must rather be conceived as a long-term enterprise of patient teaching and instruction

I have come to rely more on discipship and more less-threatening and silent witnessing. I try not to push people away. But I am always honest about the Gospel and let everyone know what my beliefs are.

Y.B.I.C,

Dave. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />

I don't see any problem or negativity in God sovereignly saving people. This is an unbiblical response, since even as calvinists, we are to share the gospel, period.


This is the false gospel of arminianism.........more will be saved by who?........not me, but Gods sovereignty. More than what? That sentence spoke only of man, and nothing of God. How about this.......

"I am motivaed to share the gospel 1) because God commands such, and 2) because it is how men hear Gods word; all those God draws will be saved.


God bless,

william

But does God ever say that, because we witness to more people, we will necessarily see more saved?

"Nagative:

"If God has already decided who will be saved and irresistibly calls them, does it really matter whether I witness or not?" This was the logic of those who told William Carey, "Sit down, young man! If God wants to save the people in India, he can well do so without your help."
William Carey himself was a Calvinist."

Those who said that to William Carey obviously were Hyper-Calvinists (or at least in what they said), not Calvinists. So obviously this is not a negative as far as Calvinism is concerned.

Actually about the only negative that I can think of is Calvinism comes across to many as unfair. But in actuality, that is only because the person who thinks that is looking at the issue through their own selfish perspective, instead of through the perspective of our sovereign God.
This is one of the things that made it so hard for me to embrace Calvinism. At first when I was confronted with this truth and couldn't wiggle out of what I saw Scripture teaching, I tried everything I could do in hopes that some how Calvinism was wrong. Not to mention the fact that I knew what many of the people that were close to me would think about me embracing Calvinism.

Even after I embraced Calvinism, it took quite a while for me to see the matter through the eyes of my sovereign God. It was almost like getting the scales removed from my eyes.

Sorry guys for rambling.

Tom

Kim

Another thing you may want to consider in what to do in this situation.. is your husband home? Not only is it a safety concern, but an appearance concern. As a woman who is home all day with children while my husband is at work, I do consider how he would feel knowing that two men were in my house. No matter what we were talking about. I also would never want to give any improper appearance to my neighbors who know I am a christian.

I don't think there is anything wrong though with stepping out on to the porch.. but I guess I also believe that women should not be teaching men. So I guess I am saying not to feel too badly, though it's always good to examine motives for sure, and to keep a tender conscience.

Michele

I said the thing about teaching men because if you were to attempt to show them error, or help them understand the true gospel, it would surely turn into a huge lesson lol. But there is nothing wrong with sharing the truth with them.. and leaving it at that.. (though you know it would not happen that way!)

Hi Michelle,

That is good advice. Yes, I did think of that and had I taken the time to talk to them, I would certainly have stepped out onto the sidewalk in front of my house to talk to them.

I, too, believe that women should not teach men, but as you said, I do think that we are all called to bear witness to the truth.