The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Justification and the Effectual Call

Hello Ruth:

Where is faith in the chain? God never waits for us. He finishes what He starts. Abraham was justified in Gen 12. Genesis 15 happenned much later. The effectual call IS regeneration. These are synonomous theological terms.

Most religionists believe justification is God’s reward for a human performance of faith. Hence, they believe justification before God is on the basis of their faith. Neither faith nor works justify one before God. Exhorting a person to make a decision for Jesus Christ and be saved is erroneous. The decision is God’s, not man’s. Justification is not a reward for the human performance of faith. One is not justified by making a decision for Christ.

Justification before God is on the basis of imputed righteousness. Justification before one’s own consciousness is by imputed and imparted righteousness. The elect are justified by works before others.

Since faith is God’s gift to us in our being made alive with Christ, it cannot be said that sinners must exercise faith in order to have faith. The grace of God, which is unmerited favor, cannot stand with man’s faith or anything in man. Therefore, being born of God precedes faith. “Whosoever [everyone] believeth [believing, present active participle of pisteuo] that Jesus is the Christ is born [has been born, perfect passive participle of gennao] of God...” (I John 5:1). His having been born of God is completed action in past time with continuing results. Therefore, he is continuing to believe, and he will always believe. He will never do anything but believe. God does not start something which He is unable to bring to completion (Phil. 1:6). It is of God in its beginning, continuation, and consummation. Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God. He does not believe in order to be born of God.



Grace and Peace

Joe

Joe k,

Are you sure you didn't intend your reply to Ruth to be posted on some other Arminian Board? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> WHO in this thread has said that faith precedes regeneration? or that justification is imputed on the basis of faith (although Luther said as much but later tried to clear that matter up) or works? Most people here hold to one of the following documents or the teaching contained in them: Westminster Confession of Faith, Belgic Confession, London Confession, Savoy Declaration, and/or the Canons of Dordt.

Secondly, I found your reply to be totally irrelevant to what Ruth wrote. Maybe you can show me that it somehow related? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

I confess those also Pilgrim. There is nothing "Arminian" about my response.

ruth said "it is a forensic declaration. It also is not caused by the effectual call! Justification is imputed when one believes."

There is a causual result from the effectual call towardds justification.

Abraham was justified prior to Genesis 15.

I apologize for the lack of clarity. I was pressed for time.

Show me where I spoke in a pellagian matter please.

Joe

Salvation is not of works less any man should boast. Eph. 2:8, 9


The Holy Spirit makes unwilling men willing. But man's willing is not how or why he is justified before God. I suspect that a faulty order of salvation that disconnects regeneration and justification has led to the Arminian schism in the Reform church.

Yes, it does. But the Bible says otherwise. Man's actions of completing the process, accepting, etc. do nothing to justify man before God: "Not of works less any man should boast." Man must despair of his own efforts before he is prepared to receive the grace of God.

Speratus brings up a valid point. What Justifies us? What is imputed to us? IT is not our faith, it is the righteousness of Christ that is imputed to us which we then have faith in. Since Abraham was justified in Genesis 12 upon the call, we have to determine what his faith was in.

Really? Again, I am left rather <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Do you really believe that one believes on Christ as a consequence of having been justified? If this is what you are espousing, I would truly love to see the biblical support for it. If this is not what you believe, then perhaps you could rephrase the statement so that it better reflects what it is you do believe. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Doesn't anyone have the ability to READ or WRITE any more? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />

This has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand and nor does speratus' infamous "wild goose chase" comments. Just how many times must one state something before it is at least acknowledged by someone? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

We are justified solely on the basis of Christ's vicarious substitutionary atonement. All the benefits of that atonement are applied to believers and them only when they believe. Believers are those whom the Spirit has regenerated out of which all evangelical graces flow, e.g., repentance, faith, sanctification, etc.

Hey, this is Salvation 101 here folks.

In His Grace,

Easy there Plgrim. I know you wield the BIG feather pen. I will clarify my position as time allows.

The thread is about the relationship between the effectual calland Justification no? Perhaps I have misread what the thread entails.

Joe,

Please READ what I wrote. I said your response was better suited to be posted on an Arminian Board because 1) it was totally irrelevant to anything that Ruth wrote in reply to you. Why? Because what she wrote was classic biblical Calvinism, which you apparently either ignored, misunderstood, didn't read, or ???? and 2) it would have been a good apologetic against Arminianism (to which we too are opposed, in case you didn't realize that even after reading through the Forum Guidelines, where it is clearly stated this Board and website are decidedly REFORMED/CALVINISTS) <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

I must say, you are as sarcastic as me.

Whether classic Calvinism confesses this is not the point.

The effectual call causes justification. Justification is nto imputed, Christs alien righteousness is imputed to us. That is what i was clarifying.

Also to state we finish the process is nto correct also IMHO.

God is author and finisher.

Why do I have ot be so busy at work today? This is getting edifying!!!!!!!!!

Agreed.... it is the biblical teaching to which classic Calvinism echos and upholds.

Thanks for the clarification. And thus I strongly reject your premise, i.e., "The effectual call causes justification. Please give biblical evidence which you feel supports your view.

The "effectual call", depending upon how you define it includes "regeneration". In regeneration, a new predisposition (nature) is created and by consequence the will recreated. And, out of this new birth (Jh 3:3, 5; Eph 2:1-9; et al) one naturally and most willingly repents of sin and believes upon Christ, at which time the sinner is justified, i.e., pronounced righteousness on the basis of Christ's substitutionary atonement. (see the excellent article by Dr. Joel Beeke on Justification by Faith Alone. Also see these relevant articles here: Sola Fide: The Doctrine of Justification.)

Sanctification is a synergistic work, i.e., God and man working together under the total control of the Spirit of God to accomplish the end for which the sinner was originally predestined, called, justified and glorified. (cf. Eph 1:4-13; Rom 8:29, 30; Phil. 2:12, 13; 1Cor 1:30; et al)

In His Grace,

pilgrim said:Thanks for the clarification. And thus I strongly reject your premise, i.e., "The effectual call causes justification. Please give biblical evidence which you feel supports your view.

I should have said the effectual call applies justification. to the elect.

The biblical suport is Abraham, for one. Are you denying that God who effectually calls one of His, does not apply the righteousness of Christ to that person at that moment? Regeneration is immediate.

Romans 8 supports this also. All whom He called he justified. What else could that mean?

Again since I believe we are also justified in Gods eternal council, this issue between us had to result.

We are justified before repentance and believing. These are part of conversion.



pilgrim said: Sanctification is a synergistic work, i.e., God and man working together under the total control of the Spirit of God to accomplish the end for which the sinner was originally predestined, called, justified and glorified. (cf. Eph 1:4-13; Rom 8:29, 30; Phil. 2:12, 13; 1Cor 1:30; et al)

We do not cooperate in sanctification. Scripture says sanctification is a one time declaration in Christ, and a growth in grace. How can one become more sanctified than Christ? I believe sanctification is election per se' that is why Paul left it out of the chain. Pilgrim We do nto cooperate, we respond. But the object of our response has to be our utter helplessness and sinfullness and the Salvation found in Christ alone.

I asked you to read the article by Crisp I posted. i believe he explains what i believe better!!!!!!!!!

Again, I have to disagree. The "effectual call" consists of:

1. Outward, general call; e.g., preaching of the gospel
2. Inward call: regeneration and drawing to Christ by virtue of the new nature created by the Spirit

It is God Himself Who "applies" justification, i.e., makes a legal pronouncement declaring the believer, at the moment faith reaches out to Christ, is righteous. Justification follows faith. And faith follows the effectual call.

Whoa!! Perhaps part of the problem here is terminology. You appear to be using "effectual call" in a very broad, encompassing sense which includes conversion; i.e., regeneration, repentance and believing on Christ. IF that is the case, then I can understand, at least in part, how you would be wanting to say that "the effectual call applies justification". But nevertheless, it isn't the "effectual call" itself that applies justification, but God Who imputes the righteousness of Christ to the sinner at the moment he/she believes. And the believing always occurs, in the case of adults, immediately after regeneration.

Methinks you have not understood what is entailed in this ordo solutis, specifically in regard to what transpires between the "and whom he called, them he also justified:" The "calling" is to faith in Christ. And those who believe on Christ, "them he also justified". The biblical record concerning Abraham fully supports this:

Romans 4:3-5 "For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness."

Galatians 3:6-9 "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, [saying,] In thee shall all the nations be blessed. So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham."

In is an incontrovertible fact, according to the text, that justification FOLLOWS faith. The merits of Christ's atoning work is IMPUTED/RECKONED to the one who believes in time.

Can you provide scriptural support for this view of yours? It seems you have opted to embrace only half of the biblical teaching re: sanctification. There are two elements of sanctification: 1) Definitive, and 2) Progressive.

It isn't a matter of becoming more sanctified in Christ, but rather becoming more sanctified to be holy as God/Christ is holy. (cf. 1Pet 1:15, 16; 2:1-3; Eph 4:20-24; Jam 1:21; Rom 6; et al)

[color:"purple"]Definitive Sanctification:[/color]
º Definitive Sanctification by John Murray

[color:"purple"]Progressive Sanctification:[/color]
º Sanctification by B.B. Warfield
º The Necessity of Progress by John Angell James

I will make a concerted effort to read that article by Crisp, D.v.

In His Grace,

What is the dictionary definition of justification and please cite where you get it from. If one is already just before God, then why does he need to repent and believe? Can you give us the Ordo Salutis laid out in Scripture?


There is such a thing as Definitive Sanctification where one is immediately sanctified. However, biblically there is also continuous or Progressive Sanctification, where one grows in grace and truth. While Sanctification is not election it is involved in the unity of Christ. Please give us dictionary definitions of sanctification and election and please cite where you are getting them.

Have you been reading material by W.E. Best?