All Baptists maintain a distinction between Israel and the Church therefore they are all dispensational.
Excuse me? Beg your pardon? Surely you are jesting? A better and more accurate statement would be some Baptists maintain a distinction between Israel and the Church and those that do are Dispensational according to the classic definition of the word.
I, as a Reformed Baptist, and a post-millenialist, do not maintain a distinction between Israel and the Church. Neither did Spurgeon who was a Historic Pre-millenialist.
A Reformed Baptist insists upon a pure Church (believers baptism). The nation of Israel was not pure (believers only) so how can it be called the Church (by Baptist) in a consistent way it can't and this leads to a sometimes subtle difference between the Testaments.
A Reformed Baptist insists upon a pure Church (believers baptism). The nation of Israel was not pure (believers only) so how can it be called the Church (by Baptist) in a consistent way it can't and this leads to a sometimes subtle difference between the Testaments.
William while I will admit that Baptist Covenant Theology (here after BCT) is different than our Presbyterian brothers form the concept of the invisible/visible church still remains the same. Thus I can say along with Spurgeon:
These who saw Christ's day before it came, had a great difference as to what they knew, and perhaps in the same measure a difference as to what they enjoyed while on earth meditating upon Christ; but they were all washed in the same blood, all redeemed with the same ransom price, and made members of the same body. Israel in the covenant of grace is not natural Israel, but all believers in all ages.
And I believe that we have definitely strayed completely off topic at this point. In fact this smacks of what is going on in the Open Forum so William if you wish to start a new thread regarding this please feel free to do so. I believe I've given you my thoughts on these matters and have nothing more to say in this particular thread.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
All Baptist mantain -- wait the only thing All baptist agree on, is that they don't all agree on any thing else, and I am sure some would disagree with that.
Oh, and I say this as a Baptist - I really find it funny what non-baptist think of Baptist, almost as funny as what some Baptist think of Baptist!
As another Baptist I'd like to say that I don't really agree with that at all...at least most of it...maybe we should vote on it. (and afterwards, we can have a potluck!)
Er, isn't there a DT course on that? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by doulos; Mon May 16, 200512:16 PM.
Josh "...the word of God is not bound."--2 Timothy 2:9
I too am Baptist and furthest away from Dispensation. Our minister is furthest away from Dispensation. John Piper is Baptist and is furthest away from Dispensation. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />
I found a MacArthur book last night that I hadn't looked through. (I work at Lifeway Christian Books) But as I was thumbing through it (I'm in charge of the theology and bible section, so I'm allowed to brows through books so I'll be better informed when I help people) and I found that at the end of this book MacArthur explains a little bit about his dispensationalism. I just thought I would share this with you so if anyone want's to learn more about his views. It's in the last chapter and it's pretty short, so you could read it while you were in the bookstore. It looks like a good book though, so you could always purchase it as well. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16
Surely this is not "ultra-lite" dispie talk, its dispie qua dispie talk. Israel is not the Church. The promises of God to Israel are not promises to the Church. There will be a future Israel receiving the promises, not the Kirk receiving the promises. What is Dispensationalism if not this?
First of all glad to see another postie in the forums, we're a select breed amongst all these amils. Now, and boy doesn't this sound like a joke I heard once, are you historic Post-mill like Loraine Boettner, A. Hodge, Charles Hodge, W.G.T. Shedd, and B.B. Warfield? Or are you a theonomic post-millenialist like Rushdoony, Gentry, Bahnsen and North?
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Yankee said: A Reformed Baptist insists upon a pure Church (believers baptism). The nation of Israel was not pure (believers only) so how can it be called the Church (by Baptist) in a consistent way it can't and this leads to a sometimes subtle difference between the Testaments.
First of all somewhere along the line you decided that Reformed Baptists don't believe in the visible/invisible church distinction. This is in error I fully believe that the visible Church consists of both false professors and true professors, tares and wheat if you will, this doesn't meant that the Church shouldn't strive to maintain true professors in the congregation. What is true church discipline if not identifying those that deny the faith inside the Church?
So in the same way that not all Israel was Israel (Rom. 9:6) I along with Paul and point to the existence of the true Church in the midst of Israel in the same manner that I can point to the true Church in the midst of both the false and true professors in the visible Church. As for the subtle differences between the testaments this has been hashed over and over again in the BCT vs CT discussions and frankly I choose not to get involved.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
In fact this smacks of what is going on in the Open Forum so William if you wish to start a new thread regarding this please feel free to do so. I believe I've given you my thoughts on these matters and have nothing more to say in this particular thread.
