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#26815
Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:25 PM
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Journeyman
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Luk 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this [child] is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Luk 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
I could find scores of explanations about Luke 2:35 from the Catholic viewpoint... the gist: that Mary shared in the Passion of Christ... moving towards co-redemptrix, etc.
I am interested in what reformed Theology has taught, inferred on the same verse... the whole verse. I found one article that deduced the other references to Mary pondering, marvelling and wondering, meant that she herself was vexed with unbelief... or confusion of seeing her flesh son, vs. his mission... Mary and Joseph looking for the youth, Jesus who worried them in Jerusalem. Luke 2:49-50.
We are told her words in the beginning of her own mission:
Luk 1:45 And blessed [is] she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
Luk 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Luk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Luk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Luk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy [is] his name.
Luk 1:50 And his mercy [is] on them that fear him from generation to generation.
Luk 1:51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
Luk 1:52 He hath put down the mighty from [their] seats, and exalted them of low degree.
Luk 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
Luk 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of [his] mercy;
Luk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
Mary wrestling with her own mother’s understanding is an interesting point, but I don’t understand the thoughts of many hearts being revealed in relation. Unless, that believers that do the will of the Father, all stand in Mary’s shoes? And our own souls, disbelief, thoughts are revealed and pierced by the Word?
If she was herself vexed, we are also told, that she found incredible favor and that she considered herself a servant.
Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.
Thoughts?
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 418
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Nov 2001
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Kathy,
It seems that you feel the clause:
that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed
is somehow still referring in some way to Mary. But the statment to Mary is a "parenthetical aside" associated with the first two clauses, and has no bearing on this final clause.
Read without the parentheses, the thrust of the passage is entirely about Christ:
Behold, this [child] is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
Compare Romans 2:16:
... in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
In Christ, Paul S
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Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
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Posts: 2,615 |
Though it is wise to study out the meaning of a text through the study of the languages, theology, etc, at times it is enjoyable to compare commentaries as well: What was it that amazed Joseph and Mary? Was it what some wish to call Simeon’s clairvoyance, but can be more fittingly described as his Spirit-wrought profound insight into the future? The answer is that it was not Simeon himself but rather what Simeon said about the child that amazed them.
This is understandable. It is true that Gabriel too had said some wonderful things about the child (1:31–33), and so had the shepherds, in reporting to Joseph and Mary what an angel, and immediately afterward a host of angels, had proclaimed (2:8–14). But these earlier messages did not include anything specific about the significance of this child for both the Gentiles and Israel. Besides, the relevations which Joseph and Mary received about their child were all so wonderful that even a measure of repetition would not have curtailed their amazement. Even today Jesus Christ is so altogether marvelous and the salvation he has provided so bountiful that we love the song:
Sing them over again to me, Wonderful words of life. P. B. Bliss
Simeon now invoked God’s blessing on Joseph and Mary. Having done this, he addressed to Mary words that must have startled her. In substance he told her that her child would become the great divider; not, however, that events would simply turn out that way, but that in God’s plan it had been so decided. Literally what he said was, “Mark well, this child is set for the falling and rising of many in Israel.…” In other words a person’s relation or attitude toward Jesus would be absolutely decisive of his eternal destiny. Some would reject him; others would by sovereign grace accept him. The former would fall; that is, they would (unless they repented) be excluded from the kingdom. The latter would rise; that is, they would be welcomed to the kingdom and its wedding feast. See Luke 13:28, 29.
There is also another interpretation. According to it Simeon is speaking about one group: first the people belonging to this group fall, then they rise.
However, far more in line with two contrasting groups is what we read elsewhere not only in the nativity account—for example, in Mary’s own Magnificat (1:50–53, note the contrasts)—but also in other parts of the Gospels. In Luke see also 6:20–23; 13:28, 29; 16:25; 18:9–14. With this can be compared the lengthy series of contrasts in Matthew: 7:24–27; 10:32, 33, 39; 11:25, 26; 13:11, 12; 18:5, 6; 21:28–32; 24:45–51; 25:1–13, 31–46. And to add one example from John’s Gospel, see 3:18.
Not to be overlooked is the phrase in Israel. Even in Israel, in spite of all its advantages, there would be this sharp division between those who reject Jesus, the vast majority (John 1:11; 6:66), and those who welcome and embrace him (1:12, 13).
The child would be a “sign.”[F. Stagg]. This means that he would point away from himself to his Sender, whose image he would reflect and whose works he would perform. In claiming this close relationship to his heavenly Father he would be “spoken against” or contradicted. That this is what actually happened is clear from Luke 4:28, 29; John 6:41, 52; 8:13, 31–59, to cite but a few references.
By means of their attitude to Jesus men would be constantly revealing the thoughts or deliberations of their hearts. They would show whether they were “for” or “against” him. Neutrality would be forever impossible (Luke 11:23; cf. Matt. 12:30).
In a parenthesis Simeon, in addressing Mary, states that a sword would pierce her soul; in fact, as the original indicates, a large and broad sword, the symbol of intense pain, of frightful and piercing anguish. For the fulfilment see John 19:25–27.
In this connection we are reminded of the poetic lines:
Stabat mater dolorosa juxta crucem lacrimosa.
The English translation of these and the immediately following lines is:
At the cross her station keeping Stood the mournful mother weeping, Close to Jesus to the last; Through her heart, his sorrow sharing, All his bitter anguish bearing, Now at length the sword had passed.
The hymn might have been helpful, were it not for the fact that—aside from the questionable “to the last”—the doctrine here displayed is far from pure. Mary did not bear or share, and could not have borne or shared, all Christ’s bitter anguish.
What Simeon said was true. But he did not see everything. He did not see that even in the midst of Mary’s sorrow she would receive a measure of comfort.
At the suggestion of the crucified Savior the disciple whom Jesus loved would take her to his home. Is it not possible that the very memory of Simeon’s prophecy strengthened Mary in the moments of her deepest agony, proving to her that this too was included in God’s plan and would therefore work together for good? Best of all, because of the resurrection on the third day Mary’s sorrow would subsequently be changed to rejoicing and strengthening of faith.
Hendriksen, William, and Simon J. Kistemaker. Vol. 11, New Testament Commentary : Exposition of the Gospel According to Luke. Accompanying biblical text is author's translation. New Testament Commentary, Page 169. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953-2001. 2:34 Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary. Simeon addressed his words to Mary rather than to Mary and Joseph. This may be because of Mary’s unique relationship to Jesus due to the virginal conception or due to Joseph’s death pre-dating the crucifixion, so that a sword could not pierce his soul. Whether Luke intended this to be understood as a priestly blessing (cf. 1 Sam 2:20; Num 6:23ff.) is uncertain. Luke must not have thought the latter was an important issue, however, because he did not indicate whether or not Simeon was a priest.
This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel. The prophecies concerning John the Baptist given at his birth (1:68–79) are now paralleled by prophecies concerning Jesus at his presentation in the temple. Luke may have been referring here to one group that falls (humbles itself) and rises (is lifted up by God). If so, this saying is to be interpreted positively and stands in contrast to the sign being “spoken against,” which is negative. On the other hand Luke may have been referring to two separate groups, one of which falls (negative) and the other of which rises (positive). The latter appears more likely and indicates that there is a double significance to Jesus’ ministry. For the humble and poor it is positive, salvation; for the haughty and rich it is negative, judgment. This twofold aspect of the coming Messiah is found both in the OT (Isa 8:14; 28:16–17) and the NT (Rom 9:33; 1 Pet 2:6–8).
Jesus’ rejection by his people (cf. John 1:11), which was already known to Luke’s readers, was announced early in his infancy. This verse foreshadows such passages as Luke 4:29; 13:33–35; 19:41–44, 47–48; 20:14, 17–19. “Many” here and in 2:35 should be understood in the Semitic sense of “all” (cf. Isa 53:12).
And to be a sign that will be spoken against. Just as in the case of Isaiah and his children (cf. Isa 8:18; 7:14), so Jesus would be a sign from God rejected by Israel (cf. Luke 11:30).
2:35 So that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. This indicates one of the purposes for Jesus’ coming. “The thoughts of many hearts” (dialogismoi , the innermost thoughts) should be understood negatively here because in its other uses in Luke (five times) and in the rest of the NT (eight times) it is always used pejoratively.
Stein, Robert H. Vol. 24, Luke. electronic ed. Logos Library System; The New American Commentary, Page 116. Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 2001, c1992. Simeon’s praise and prophecy (2:25-35)
We have in these verses the account of one whose name is nowhere else mentioned in the New Testament, a righteous and devout man (verse 25) named Simeon. We know nothing about his life before or after the time of Christ’s birth. We are only told that he came through the Spirit into the temple when the child Jesus was brought there by his mother and that he took him in his arms and praised God (verse 28) with words which are known throughout the world.
1. God has believing people, even in the darkest days We see, in the case of Simeon, how God has a believing people even in the worst places and in the darkest times. Religion was at a very low ebb in Israel when Christ was born. Yet even then we find in the middle of Jerusalem a man who was righteous and devout (verse 25), a man whom the Holy Spirit was upon (verse 25).
It is an encouraging thought that God never leaves himself entirely without a witness. Small as his believing church may sometimes be, the gates of hell will never completely prevail against it. True Christians in every age should remember this and take comfort. It is a truth which they are apt to forget and in consequence to give way to despondency and say with Elijah, “I am the only one left.” But God answered him, “Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel” (1 Kings 19:14, 18). There are more Simeons in the world than we suppose.
2. We see how completely a believer can be delivered from the fear of death
We see in the song of Simeon how completely a believer can be delivered from the fear of death. “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you now dismiss your servant in peace” (verse 29). Simeon speaks like a person for whom the grave has lost its terrors and the world its charms. He speaks as one who knows where he is going when he departs this life and cares not how soon he goes.
What delivers us from that fear of death which enslaves so many people? There is only one answer to this question. Nothing except strong faith can do it. Faith laying firm hold on an unseen Saviour—faith resting on the promises of an unseen God. Faith, and faith only, can enable a man to look death in the face and say, “I depart in peace.”
3. Some Jewish believers had a good understanding about Christ’s work before the Gospel was preached We see, furthermore, in the song of Simeon what clear views about Christ’s work and office some Jewish believers attained, even before the preaching of the Gospel. We find this good old man speaking of Jesus as God’s “salvation” (verse 30), as “a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel” (verse 32). Well would it have been for the well-read scribes and Pharisees of Simeon’s day if they had sat at his feet and listened to him.
Christ is “a light … to the Gentiles” (verse 32). Without him they were sunk in deep darkness and superstition. The Gospel of Christ was like sunrise to Greece and Rome and the whole heathen world. Christ was indeed “glory to … Israel” (verse 32). Descending from Abraham—the covenants, the promises, the law of Moses, the divinely ordered temple service—all these were mighty privileges. But all were as nothing compared to the mighty fact that from Israel was born the Saviour of the world.
Simeon’s words have further fulfillment. The “light” which he saw by faith as he held the child Jesus in his arms will yet shine so brightly that all the Gentile nations will see it. The “glory” of the Jesus whom Israel crucified will one day be revealed so clearly to the scattered Jews that they will look on him whom they pierced and repent and be converted. The day will come when the veil will be taken away from the heart of Israel, and all will see the glory of the Lord (see Isaiah 45:25). If Christ is the light and glory of our souls, that day cannot come too soon.
4. The results which follow Christ’s coming into the world
We see, lastly, in this passage a striking account of the results which would follow when Jesus Christ and his Gospel came into the world. Every word of old Simeon on this subject deserves private meditation. The whole forms a prophecy which is daily being fulfilled.
Christ will be “a sign that will be spoken against” (verse 34). He was despised and rejected by men. Men who agreed about nothing else have united in their hatred of Christ. From the very first, thousands have been persecutors and unbelievers.
Christ would cause the fall of many in Israel (verse 34). He became a stone to stumble over and a rock of offense to many proud, self-righteous Jews who would reject him and perish in their sins (see 1 Corinthians 1:23; 2 Corinthians 2:16). Christ was also to be the occasion for the “rising of many in Israel” (verse 34).
When, for example, Saul who persecuted Christ was converted, there was nothing less than a rising again from the dead. Through Christ “the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed” (verse 35). His Gospel was to bring to light the real characters of many people. And so, what do we think of Christ? This is the question which should occupy our minds.
Ryle, J. C. Luke. The Crossway classic commentaries, Lk 2:25. Wheaton, Ill.: Crossway Books, 1997.
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Journeyman
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John and Paul,
Lots of helpful commentary provided that puts these verses in the proper focus... and more levels of depth.
Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,
I have always considered this line to be concerning the heartache Mary would bear... and I think that is so; I think that statement to Mary fits with Simeon’s blessing.
Even so, the reference to this being a Sword piercing Mary’s own soul... appears to holds another level of meaning in the rest of the message, which is entirely about the dividing nature of Jesus...
Because the Word is referred to as a two-edged Sword.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Behold, this [child] is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
-Kathy
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