The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Is seeking numerical growth always a bad thing?

This is a question that has been put in front of me off and on recently. At the church I serve at, we strive to build the kingdom and not our local body. We are afraid to be doing things for the wrong reasons just to gain numerical growth for ourselves. But is seeking numerical gain always a bad thing? Is it possible to get so wrapped up in trying to grow the kingdom through conversions that the local body suffers (financially or in other ways)?

I am not suggesting this is happening at my church. I don't see it as being that way at all. But I see it as a very real possibility in any local church.

A faithful church is one that preaches the Gospel, administers the Sacraments, and watches over the sheep. I don't see any texts that command us to count sheep. I think this whole idea of counting heads is man centered and part of the church growth movement which focuses on numbers.

Growth is a good thing. In Acts 2:40-47 we see how the early church grew. It's focus was on the Apostles doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and prayers. The impact this church had on the community they lived in was positive and the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.


Wes

I am in total agreement with you. But what if a church doesn't have enough people who are giving money to pay their bills? Wouldn't it be a good idea for that church to either 1) find a way to have the funds to pay their bills or 2) find a way to have more people coming and giving so that the bills could be paid? If option #2 were taken, would that be a bad thing for the church to do?

A question that comes to mind immediately, is how did such a financially-strapped church come into being in the first place? Did someone just decide to start a church on their own? Or was it started under the auspices of an already established church? If the former, by what authority was this group of people joined together as a church? If the latter, then it would be the responsibility of the Elders and Deacons who are overseeing this new work to supply the needs required.

Most might be started because they did not like what was being preached at the church they were at so they decide to start their own.
In Killeen, Tx there are a lot of store front churches.

Sadly, I know of churches that would have no trouble with option 2. They see members as means of getting money rather than as sinners being conformed into the image of Christ.

Another reason I don't like option 2 is that it's saying the only possible way of getting more money is to get more people into the church. Whatever happened to looking at ways of better handling the money one currently has? Or what about making this problem known to the congregation and encouraging them to give what they can?

Also, option 2 smacks of seeker-sensitive logic. Instead of seeking members for a reason that is not Biblically warranted, and in ways that are not Biblically warrented, how about seeking God in prayer on the matter?

My first thought would be what bills? Has the church taken on too much staff or too much property? Has there been a decline in membership? Shouldn't the deacons be giving some advice on where the shortfall is and how to address it?


Well, you could always have bingo fund raisers like the catholics do or bring in a carnival. There are lots of ways to raise money. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Seriously though, you should have a congregational meeting and discuss the church budget. If the members are not willing to meet the obligations for the spending the deacons has subscribed to you simply need to cut back. After all your church may be overlooking ways to cut costs. If the church is still unable to meet its financial responsibilities you may have to request help from other churches and become a mission church. In the NT example I sighted above the members shared their possessions with one another so that nobody needs were unmet. Are the members in your church committed to meeting the financial needs of the church and just unable or are they unwilling?


Wes

Does the church belive like George Mueller that God can supply all its need. Mueller did not ask for money and God provided all that he needed. Not only for the church but for Mueller to help other preachers like Adoniram Judson`

Being raised Southern Baptists, I guess I don't have a complete Biblical understanding of what a deacon is supposed to do. In the churches I've been in (it's different in the one I'm serving in now), the deacons never did anything of the sort. They seemed to be DINOs (Deacons In Name Only). They helped administer the Lord's Supper and maybe teach some Sunday School, but that was about it.

Boy this one's easy........

All Ya gotta do is to offer a "Get Out of Purgatory Free" card for a coin in the coffer!

Duh...... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

All your financial troubles are over!

Well except when a scrawny little bald guy nails up some paper on your church door.... but let's not worry about that.

Dave. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

hehehe

As a fellow Southern Baptist, I obviously have conflicting feelings on the matter, but I would say that we should have that attitude of Expecting Great Things From God and Attempting Great Things for God (William Carey anybody?). We ought to be expecting God to bring in the Bacon cause Christ is the Church's husband and He will provide, just as was so eloquintly and inspirationally shown in George Mueller's life and others, as it is being shown in work such as that being done by the House Churches in S. E. Asia, but that in no way means we can sit on our buts like Hyper-Calvinist and not go out and tell people and get people involved. I'll take the SBC party line this once and say that if we believe that we are the church closest to New Testament theology and practice then it is only logical that we get people to come to our church and barring that for some reason then we make certain they get involved with some other Bible believing church.

I do notice that we use the analogy of the Shepard for Pastors, and the Flock as the church body, and let me point out to you that part of the shepard's duty is to count at the end of his shift and make certain that none have been stolen away. " What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray." (Matthew 18:12-13 (RSV)). Sounds like having a full body who functions one member fit and joined together with another is pretty important to the smooth running of the church.

As our dear former pastor said on many occaisions, If it is a New Testament Church, founded on Christ and the Word (the Bible) then even the gates of hell cannot prevail against it, but if it fails, then somewhere along the way it has become something other than a New Testament Church.


Think of evangelism like you think of prayer, God ordained it, you willingly do it, and if you pray according to the Father's will, He uses your prayers as a means to accomplish His will, and you get to be a part of God's work. God has ordained that we evangelize the world, teaching and making disciples etc, and He has also ordained the number which is to be added daily to the church.

Preach the Word . . . sometimes it'll be in season, sometimes not, sometimes the flock is bigger, sometimes not, but you shepard just the same cause the sheep belong to your employer.

-Bro. Luke