The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Subtle Shades of Legalism

Before I begin, I must say that I am an extremely legalistic, self-righteous and proud person. That is a BIG problem.

Just a few days ago I was reading 'Human Nature in its Fourfold State' by Thomas Boston, particularly the chapter called something like 'The Mystical Union between Christ and believers'. Boston was talking about how the Holy Spirit 'chops' the elect off the original tree and ingrafts them into Christ.

He then explains the different stages that people can go through before they come to an end of themselves. Basically he was describing legalism- starting with the open "I will improve myself to save myself" to more subtle forms.

And frankly it scared me. Some of what he said sounded way too much like ME for comfort. And I am depressed.

I suppose I'm scared of being burnt again. I joined the church about 5 years ago after been scared nearly to suicide by dreams I had had- showing me just how horrible I was. It took a LOT of convincing that I could still be saved. I asked God for forgiveness- and fell into the trap of thinking that my asking was what mattered. So I asked again and again, all the while engineering feelings in myself to make my request "better".

I sort of got the idea that saved people should out of gratitude serve Christ. So I did. When it fit in with my plans. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

3 years ago I started realising that I was supposed to be completely Christ's. So I tried to be, and started spending more time studying the Bible and reading books. Then I understood reformed theology. I sort of realized that the asking for forgiveness wasn't the important thing but I don't know whether or not it sunk in. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

The last year I have been under terrible conviction and so on. Read Grace Abounding and was some comfort. But then again I think I was trusting my conviction. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

I went through times I thought I had commited the unpardonable sin but eventually 8 months ago I realized the idea of grace. That it is all of grace, and I was filled with peace. It wasn't a quick thing but a slow thing, but now I wonder if it ever happened. I am afraid I am trusting my feelings yet again. Recently I have had such legalistic, self-righteous thoughts (something like Jonah's) I don't know that I ever received mercy. I suppose it just comes down to casting myself on his mercy and waiting. Which I have done (I think).

BTW I don't want a bandaid so if you were thinking of offering me one, please don't. I just want prayer.
I've been thinking hard about it and I suppose it comes down to trusting Christ to save from legalism, trusting him even when you CAN'T TRUST. Is that right?

anna3b

p.s sorry this is long it helps to write

Anna3b,

Okay.... you've got your prayer as requested. But I just gotta throw you a bandaid too!

Take time to read through these two GEMS. You'll be glad you did. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

1) The Glory of Christ, by John Owen

2) Keeping the Heart, by John Flavel

In His grace,

I like the way Steve Brown put it one day in his description of sanctification:

Sanctification is less like a duty and much more like a dance.

A legalist is a dancer who is always watching his or her feet to be sure (s)he's getting every step right.

Which, of course, misses the whole point of dancing to begin with! The object of the dance is to become more intimate with the one we're dancing with. Our eyes should be on His face - not on our own feet.

Or worse - on other people's feet...

-Robin

Your story sounds familiar. I could write it myself, only some of the order of events and time periods would be different. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Don't worry, I'm positive the Lord will eventually bring both of us to an end of ourselves. He said He'd do it.

If it's prayer you want, you've got it. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thankyou Pilgrim for suggesting John Owen's book which I have started to read. (By the way, Owen is not a bandaid. What I meant by a bandaid was a 'you'll feel better soon' which is what I get from the very kind people at the church I go to. I don't WANT to feel better soon. I want to BE better soon.)

Yes, Robin. John Owen's book is helping me somewhat in that respect. It is so refreshing looking at Christ. My problem is I try to look at my looking and the more I do so the less there is to look at. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

It's nice to know I'm not alone, Dee, but I suppose YOU wish I was.
I'll return to Owen.

anna3b

Although you spoke with lament re: "look at my looking . . .", your conclusion to it should be seen as a very positive thing.

You see, those who have been given life by the Spirit of God (aka: regeneration, born anew, spiritual resurrection, et al) have their eyes open to behold something of themselves which they beforehand were unable to see . . . their sinfulness. Fortunately, this extraordinary glimpse into our inner being; our soul is just that, by God's mercy and grace, only a glimpse. But as we grow in grace the reality of what we truly are, i.e., the way God sees us is gradually revealed more and more. And as you are finding out, it ain't a pretty sight.

But there is obviously a good (perfect) reason why God allows us to peer into ourselves and see if only in part, the blackness of our hearts. The more we come to know ourselves as God knows us, then the more we are driven out of ourselves and to Christ, Who alone is our perfect righteousness and reconciliation. God loves us IN CHRIST!! Notice how Paul connects the love of God, the Lord Christ and us (believers) together here:

Ephesians 1:3-6 (ASV) "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:"

Thus, as we become more and more loathing of ourselves, Christ becomes more and more precious to us in so many ways. Our dependency (legalism) on self diminishes and our dependency (living faith) on Christ increases. It's a marvelous thing indeed. This is our "dying to self" and our "living to Christ" which is a life-long task.

This is mainly the reason I recommended John Owen's book, The Glory of Christ. The more we know of Him the more we are able to love Him for Who He is and what He has done for us. And the more we love Christ, the less we will be preoccupied with self.

Galatians 2:19-20 (ASV) "For I through the law died unto the law, that I might live unto God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me."

Okay, enough reading of this tripe and get back to Owen!

In His grace,

anna3b
I realize that my post is a little simple compared to the others but -
On one hand puritan writings are God’s gifts to the Church and I believe they didn’t want to make the sinner feel bad, but to find assurance of faith. There are times however when I think they should be dropped down a shelf or two. Here’s one example. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/hairout.gif" alt="" />



William

I finished Part 1 of John Owen, and am half-way through Part 2. I think that I might leave the rest until a later date.

William, I am perfectly aware the Puritans were fallible, but am not quite sure what Mr. Beeke is saying Mr. Sibbes was saying. I have a bit of a headache at the moment so I’m not quite up to understanding much. (Probably trying to read and comprehend Owen without glasses on. Getting old.)<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wow1.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, Boston was not talking about assurance. He was talking about legalism, pride and hatred of God and therefore refusing to be saved by him alone.

Recently I have been coming to terms with the Sovereignty of God. It was very hard to do so, and all sorts of blasphemies from Satan were attacking me. It came to a point where I was pushed into a corner to resolve something I thought I had resolved months before, when I had come to terms with the doctrine of election.

1. surrender my pride and be saved
2. not surrender my pride and refuse to glorify God by being saved

With my mind I chose 1, but did I with my heart? After all I had blasphemies running through it....
Then I read Boston.

So I’m basically trying to work out whether I really want what I think I want. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif" alt="" />

That’s just to clarify. I know what I'm supposed to do. I’ve been reading Spurgeon’s sermons recently and he was talking about this sort of thing. He answered along the lines of: “Self-righteous sinner, Jesus can save even you from your self-righeteousness. So trust him to do so.” (paraphrase)

anna3b

I really don't think an unregenerate person would be worried about it. The fact that you even care at all is considerable evidence that the Holy Spirit has begun a work in your heart.

I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6, NASB).

annab3



<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> sorry


O.K. disregarding what I quoted by Beeke about Mr. Sibbes what I’m trying to convey is said best by Lloyd-Jones.


The same applies to the Layperson.

The above quotes by Lloyd-Jones are what I was trying to say about the puritans and I still believe this.



William

I understand now William. Yes, knowing my own temperament, I steer carefully away from Jonathan Edwards- he always scares me to death.

Hmmmmm, I'm guessing the only thing you have probably read are two of his most published sermons, 1) "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" and 2) "The End of the Wicked Contemplated". But actually, Edwards preached TONS of other sermons as well as wrote books and articles which could hardly be deemed "scary", e.g., his excellent book, Charity and its Fruits. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

Anna

I will be praying for you.
As I read what you had to say, I couldn't help but think that perhaps the book 'Spiritual Depression' by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones might help you.
I have yet to read it myself, but I think it was Pilgrim who has highly recommended it in the past.
Perhaps he might want to comment on whether or not he would recommend it or not and give you a little back ground on the book.

Pilgrim, I hope my last comment was not being presumptuous.

Tom

Spiritual Depression by D.M. Lloyd-Jones is one of those "must read" books, which IMHO every Christian should read . Whether it is applicable to one's own personal situation or not it can be of great help when trying to counsel someone else as well.