The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Old Testament Law

Thank you for not answering my question. I'll ask again to be sure you didn't miss it.<br><br>How do we 'test' your spirit? My spirit tells me you are wrong, so where do we go from here?<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]The Bible, as we know it, was not compiled when John wrote that statement. So clearly, he was not referring to what later became canonized and known as the Bible.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Obviously you have an inadequate doctrine of Scripture. Although the Canon was not ratified until the 4th century, that does not mean that the writings themselves did not exist before the 4th century. We read that the writings of the Apostles, which were encyclical and read by all the churches. Paul recognized that he and others had been commissioned by Christ to set forth the true in writing and to which all were to give heed and obedience. (Rom 1:1, 5; Col 2:6, 7;1Tim 2:7; 1Thess 2:13; 2Thess 2:15; 3:14) Those early letters of Paul were deemed to be "Scripture" by Peter and John. (cf. 2Pet 3:15, 16; Rev 1:3)<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]The Holy Spirit is the Revealer of Truth. He lives within us, and we can depend on Him to teach us what is true,<br><br>"When the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all the Truth; for He will not speak on his own authority, but whatever He hears he will speak." (John 16:13)</font><hr></blockquote><p>Scripture itself sets forth its own hermeneutic. They are:<ol>[*]The New Testament interprets the Old Testament</li>[*]The Epistles interpret the Gospels</li>[*]The Universal interprets the Local</li>[*]The Didactic interpret the Symbolic</li>[/LIST]This being an indisputable fact, we must look to the Epistles to properly understand what Jesus Christ said in John 16:13. Did the Apostles understand what Jesus said directly to them in the same way in which you interpret this text? The answer is a resounding, "No!". Here are but a few of the myriad passages which refute your interpretation and contrariwise state that it is through human teachers that the Holy Spirit works in the heart of believers: Acts 5:42; 13:1; 1Cor 4:17; 1Tim 1:3; 3:2; 4:11; 6:2, 3; 2Tim 2:2, 24; Titus 2:4; Heb 5:12; 1Jh 2:26, 27; et al. Not only do we have these passages but it is God's specific design that there be men appointed for the task of teaching:<blockquote>1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV) "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, <span style="background-color:yellow;">thirdly teachers</span>, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."<br><br>Ephesians 4:10-12 (ASV) "He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some [to be] apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, <span style="background-color:yellow;">pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ:</span></blockquote>I repeat, the Spirit always works in, through and by the written Word, not apart or in addition to the written Word.<br><br>In His Grace,

The ongoing process of sanctification within the believer continues until death - and only then is our sanctification realised.<br><br>Christs work is completed but we as christians live in a constant mortification of our old nature - the struggle within us all.<br><br>This is , at least, as I "feel" it . Please put me right if I am straying.<br><br>howard

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>How do we 'test' your spirit? My spirit tells me you are wrong<br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>William, you just answered your own question.<br><br>Where do we go from here? Same place you go when you don't agree with Pilgrim, Wes, or anybody else on this board. <br><br>It is the agape of God that binds the body of Christ together. I suggest that you and I accept each other as brothers in Christ and operate in the agape of God towards one other. The commandment is not agreement; it is agape.<br><br>Blessings,<br><br>Alex<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>I repeat, the Spirit always works in, through and by the written Word, not apart or in addition to the written Word.<br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>To claim that God speaks to man only through the written Word (which I assume you mean to be the Bible) is, well, absurd. That view ignores historical fact. A high percentage of the true believers down through history even to the present day have not had the advantage of having direct access to the Bible as we know it today.<br><br>The gospel of Jesus Christ is beautiful in its simplicity. God is not partial. What is available to one is available to all --- the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit who teaches us and guides us into all the truth.<br><br>Attempts to make the gospel complicated work against those who are uneducated or of average intelligence. I am a software developer by trade, and those who know me professionally respect my technical competence. That said, I consider my intelligence, my ability to reason, and my logic skills pure rubbish when compared with the revelation that comes from God. I would rather hear 10 words spoken by God within than read 10,000 words written by anyone who uses reason and logic to develop their points.<br><br>25 cent words like hermeneutic and exegesis sound good. But to most folks, they're just gibberish. "God will" and "God has" are words EVERYBODY understands.<br><br>Blessings,<br><br>Alex<br>

OK, so we hold hands with heretics?<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william

Alex-Light, I am sure Pilgrim will address you further mis-understandings of Scripture, but until then:<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]To claim that God speaks to man [color:red]only through</font color=red> the written Word (which I assume you mean to be the Bible) is, well, absurd.</font><hr></blockquote><p> What you propose is heresy. What you assert is that God has a special truth for each individual in the world and that it may vary away from the very inspired Word of God. History supports what you are maintaining is some sort of spiritual relativism (sorry for the big word): that is, if a person asserts what is said to be from the Holy Spirit, though it be against the Scripture, it must be true. Thus, what you maintain is that there is no "one" absolute standard and thus deny the very foundation of God's inspired Word--God Himself. <br><br>Besides being unbiblical, your view is likewise self-defeating:<br><br><ul>1. If each man is "spiritually" the measure of all things (without regard for the Scripture), and I, being a spiritual man, believe that Alex-Light's view are false, then they are false. Thus, Alex_Light's views are useless. <br>2. If every man has his own "spiritual" truth (without regard for the Scripture), then why is Alex-Light posting anything, for he is not the Holy Spirit? Thus, Alex_Light's views are useless. <br><br><blockquote>[color:blue]Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.</blockquote></font color=blue>[/LIST] <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]25 cent words like hermeneutic and exegesis sound good. But to most folks, they're just gibberish. "God will" and "God has" are words EVERYBODY understands.</font><hr></blockquote><p> Everyone understands "God's will," uhmmm? Ok, so tell us how many "wills" does God have?

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>In reply to:<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>25 cent words like hermeneutic and exegesis sound good. But to most folks, they're just gibberish. "God will" and "God has" are words EVERYBODY understands.<br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Everyone understands "God's will," uhmmm? Ok, so tell us how many "wills" does God have? <br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>Read a little more carefully Joe. It said "God will" not "God's will".<br><br>'uhmmm" --- are you in the choir? <br><br>Alex<br><br><br>

Well apparently, NOT everybody understands it as you so "spiritually" asserted. So, what do you mean by "God Will", [color:red]not</font color=red> Good Will, [color:red]not</font color=red> God's will, [color:blue]but "God will"</font color=blue> (which IMHO is not even good English, spiritual or otherwise)? <br><br>And what about answering the rest of the post?<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>And what about answering the rest of the post?<br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>Joe, in a prior post, you asserted,<br><br>"If you are finding this (completed santifcation and a place of satisfaction in Christ where we're not experiencing inner struggle) in this world at this present time then you have revealed something very important to all of us here--that you are not a Christian!" <br><br>So in light of your statement, it would be best if you and I don't engage in any further discussions. <br><br>Alex<br><br>"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisifed."

So, are you a Christian? You have not answered the question?<br><br>In that specific post of mine I was replying to your perfectionist attitude that you do not think you can sin. This has been brought to your attention in other places as well--see the Not in the flesh thread. You continue to evade the questions answering each question instead with your philosophical questions. This is an evasive maneuver and not one of complete honesty and desiring true dialog--a normal "cult" technique!<br><br>The Scriptures, as cited in [color:red]1 John 1</font color=red>, state that you are deceived if you take this "completed perfectionist" view. Thus, this begs the question once again, are you a Christian? If so, how did you become one? If so, how will you remain one? Since, in previous posts you have stated that you do not sin--for you are in the Spirit, this indicates something other than genuine Christianity and an individual who does not understand his depravity.<br><br>and back to some other questions you have not answered: <br><br><ul>1. So, what do you mean by "God Will", [color:red]not</font color=red> Good Will, [color:red]not</font color=red> God's will, [color:blue]but "God will"</font color=blue>? <br><br>2. What about the heresy you propose here: "To claim that God speaks to man only through the written Word (which I assume you mean to be the Bible) is, well, absurd"?[/LIST]

I agree with Joe and Pilgrim in that you are purposely evasive and circular. I'll ask this question again in hopes of a better response, one with meaning and depth.<br><br>When my 'spirit' says your 'spirit' is heretical, how do we solve the issue? How do we define heresy and deal with it?<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william

In answer to my request to show one solitary text that shows that God is responsible to keep the moral law and not man, you replied with:<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]You're talking about the moral law, correct? If so, I already did --- Ezekiel 36:27.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Let's look at the actual text to see if it teaches that God is responsible/keeps the law for a believer:<blockquote>Ezekiel 36:26-27 (ASV) "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause [color:red]you</font color=red> to walk in my statutes, and [color:red]ye shall keep</font color=red> mine ordinances, and do them."</blockquote> Why would you ever choose THIS text as a prooftext for your view? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img] A child in grammar school could read this text and see that it is the individual who will "walk" and "keep" the law of God and not God/Holy Spirit. I think that is called, "Shooting yourself in the foot."!!<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Let me put icing on the cake. Read Galatians 2:20 and Col 3:3.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Again, let's look at the actual texts. First of all, you want me to read Galatians 2:20, which reads:<blockquote>Galatians 2:20 (ASV) "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which [color:red]I now live</font color=red> in the flesh [color:red]I live in faith</font color=red>, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me."</blockquote>As was true for the passage in Ezekiel, so it is also true of the Galatian text...!! It is PAUL who does the living in faith not God. (cf. Rom 6:16)<br><br>And lastly, you referenced Colossians 3:3, which reads:<blockquote>Colossians 3:1-3 (ASV) "If then ye were raised together with Christ, [color:red][you should/must] seek</font color=red> the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. [color:red][you should/must] Set your mind</font color=red> on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.</blockquote>Once again, it is the individual who is exhorted to "set your mind" and to "seek", which clearly shows that the believer is responsible to do these things, not God. Secondly, there is absolutely nothing even inferred in this text concerning the keeping of the moral law. Thus, your putting "icing on the cake" is a total fiction as there isn't even any cake to put it on. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>Why would you ever choose THIS text as a prooftext for your view? A child in grammar school could read this text and see that it is the individual who will "walk" and "keep" the law of God and not God/Holy Spirit. I think that is called, "Shooting yourself in the foot."!!<br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>If God is forcing one to do something, which the text of that verse indicates, one could say God is doing it. God's will cannot be resisted.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>Again, let's look at the actual texts. First of all, you want me to read Galatians 2:20, which reads:<br><br>Galatians 2:20 (ASV) "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me."<br>As was true for the passage in Ezekiel, so it is also true of the Galatian text...!! It is PAUL who does the living in faith not God. (cf. Rom 6:16)<br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>You highlighted the wrong part of the text. "It is no longer I that live" is the pertinent part. How can one who has died do anything?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]<br>And lastly, you referenced Colossians 3:3, which reads:<br>Colossians 3:1-3 (ASV) "If then ye were raised together with Christ, [you should/must] seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. [you should/must] Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.<br>Once again, it is the individual who is exhorted to "set your mind" and to "seek", which clearly shows that the believer is responsible to do these things, not God. <br></font><hr></blockquote><p><br>The phrase "For ye died" is of special interest here. Again, how can one who has died be responsible for or do anything?<br><br>God is the Doer. Jesus said, "I can do nothing of my own accord." Nor can we. <br><br>If man's effort and will were required, even a little bit, the result would be corrupt.<br><br>Alex<br><br><br><br><br> <br><br>

Joe, in the prior post, you stated plainly, "Alex is not a Christian". In this post you ask, "Alex are you a Christian?"<br><br>I will not be replying to any more of your posts, because you are questioning my salvation.<br><br>Alex<br><br>"Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."