The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Justified by love?

I think this kind of thought is very limiting to one's perception of God, who is eternal and exists outside of time. The propitiation, for Him and for His people, occured "before the foundation of the world," and therefore the full weight of it's efficacy has been extenant before the foundation of the world! Those who God redeemed before Christ were redeemed in exactly the same way they are today: By grace, through God-given faith, resulting from regeneration by the Spirit.

First actions can be out of fear, many of the actions done in the O.T. were based on fear. That is one of the problems with the church today, lots of actions but very little love. Today instead of fear, the actions are many times based on selfish motives. I believe love can be elusive to say the least. A better example of our love is our worship. Do we love His word? Do we love His law? Is our delight in the fellowship of believers? These all demonstrate our love. Not conclusively, but a good start.

As for the comment about the demons, they don't know as much as we do, they haven't experienced the forgiveness of sin, nor the mercy of God. They only know the justice of God which will bring rebellion not love. The world that hasn't experienced the love of God can't reciprocate love. It is impossible for them to love a God who to them, is a God of judgment. At least they will not love the true God.

As for trying to derail things. Lighten up, I thought this was a discussion group. I was only adding to the discussion. I apologize if you felt I was trying to derail anything, that wasn't my intention. Words in written form can be misread so easily, but in the tenor of this discussion board, it should be a given everything is being said in kindness and if we are born again, with the love of Christ. Please don't be offended with any counter comments I make, it is only as part of a discussion, not an attack.

In Christ Love,
Hisalone

Yes, but time was involved, the Son of God had to be born into the realm of time in order to suffer and die. Until that was done, there wasn't the type of propitiation that you are talking about. If it was, then all the O.T. sacrifices were for nothing. If the O.T. saints believed, then they were washed by Christ's "future" blood, and there wouldn't have been the need for all those bloody sacrifices. Doesn't add up to me.

1. IF this woman truly loved Christ, which the passage certainly implies, then of necessity she was regenerated. Or, is it untrue that ALL born into the human race are spiritually dead; predisposed to hating God and all that is good including hating Christ in His person and work? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" />

2. Paul says, "no one seeks God" . . . which must include those in the O.T. and all those in the N.T. Thus the only way anyone comes to Christ (NT) or the promise of the coming of Christ (OT) is if God the Spirit gives them a new nature, aka: regeneration. The Spirit works OUTSIDE of an individual in regeneration (coming upon) and thereafter, after regeneration/conversion INSIDE an individual for sanctification. Put another way, the Spirit works externally via the preaching of the Word (irresistible/efficacious grace) effecting regeneration and then when one exercises faith in Christ, the Spirit resides within.

3. Now, I do think that this discussion on regeneration is off topic to the subject at hand and thus if you or someone else would like to continue with the issue of regeneration, a new thread should be started. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



In His grace,

The OT sacrifices were sacramental. They pointed forward to the redemption that would be accomplished in time by Christ. But that future redemption was applied to the OT saints, not because the animal & grain sacrifices could take away their sins, but because they hoped in the Christ who was to come. The Lord's Supper is similar in this way: it points back to the redemption that was accomplished in time by Christ, and that past redemption is applied in the present to the saints, not because the Lord's Supper is in itself an effective sacrifice, but because we hope in the Christ who served as our propitiation.