The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Frustrating Conversation

For about the past 6 months I have been having quite a few conversations in person and via e-mail with a man from work who claims to be a Christian.
This man rightfully talks about how wrong the left wing agenda is, he has sent me many articles of examples of the agenda of the left. Some of these articles I think I have have also have found on the Highway. Although I appreciate where this man is coming from; I have come to realize that although he talks about these things being against Christianity; he does not actually bring up Scripture.
I thought I would try to ask him to bring up Scripture during these conversations, especially on how we as Christians should react. Since this did not seem to change anything, I decided to do it myself when I replied to him. I brought up Scripture such as Acts 7 where Stephen was brought before his accusers and preached to them, which lead to his martyrdom. I brought up Paul and a few other Bible characters, also to make the point how they all believed that God was sovereign over everything and they could face whatever life threw at them trusting God.
His response; was basically that Paul and Stephen were probably not married so they could afford to be “pacifists”. I responded that I do not believe that either Paul or Stephen were advocating “pacifism”. I also gave him a verse that has been a great comfort to me during health crisis and other things in my life; that verse is Roman 8:28 and exegeted the verse for him.
His response was asking me if someone was threatening the life of my wife, would I sit back and just pray, or would I physically intervene? I responded of course that I would physically intervene. He then responded, that is good, so you wouldn’t actually do what Romans 8:28 says, seeing God is sovereign?
I told him that Romans 8:28, does not in the slightest manner tell us to sit back and just pray in a situation like you mentioned. He looked at me like I had three eyes and said I am making absolutely no sense at all.
This is basically how the conversation has been going, and I have tried to explain myself to him in a number of different ways without any success, other than he still keeps bringing up the conversation.
I am beginning to think this is starting to be a waste of my time; however before I give up, I thought I would ask the board for their opinions first.
Tom

I'm not sure what the issue is between you two?

Scripture does not teach pacifism. What it does teach is that God is sovereign (power and authority over all things which He has ordained from all eternity and brings to pass through divine providence). Romans 8:28 IN CONTEXT which is the devastating effects of the Fall upon not just mankind but all creation and how that true believers will suffer both from that corruption but because they are believers but they must realize that ALL THINGS work together for good to those who love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Paul continues and focuses upon the believers' salvation in particular explaining that even their redemption has been predestined/foreordained from eternity, not just in general but each and every step of it from their efficacious calling (by the Spirit, aka: irresistible grace) to their final glorification.

Okay, moving on from God is wholly sovereign to the no less incontrovertible truth that man is wholly responsible for every thought, word and deed through his entire life, from conception to death. We are to conduct ourselves appropriately in all situations which Scripture enumerates in myriad places giving many situations as examples for us to follow. The situation with Stephen would be akin to a Swat team storming your house and forcing you outside where they shoot you on the spot. Like the famous quote from Star Trek... "Resistance is futile!" We are to protect our bodies from harm both from self-infliction and by others and this includes the members of our immediate family and as a good Samaritan our neighbors, etc. Scripture and its application, i.e., wisdom given by the Spirit will dictate how we should conduct ourselves.

This simply means as Paul commands in 2Thess 3:10, e.g., if a man is slothful, lazy, irresponsible and refuses to work, then he should not eat (be given food). We are never told to sit around a dining table, pray and then expect manner from heaven to appear on the table. Yet we are told to ask God to provide from our daily sustenance and thank Him for it. Likewise, in a critical situation where harm or death is probable, we are to act in whatever means is available to protect ourselves from harm.

So, what is it exactly that you are having problems with in regard to this person??

Actually I have no idea what the problem is other than maybe he doesn't comprehend the facts that the Scripture passages in question do not teach pacifism.
I tried explaining this to him many times with no success.
This man is quite intelligent, but there are times even when I talk about the simple things in Scripture he doesn't comprehend any of it. I ask him what he thinks I mean and he will say something like "I have no idea".
Tom

Also, point out that we are called to be the salt of the earth, and that means standing up for truth and justice. We can only affect change within our means, and that means voting etc., which is also a type of action. We are most CERTAINLY called to take action! It is the only way to create change.

Good points, he certainly is willing to stand against the left wing agenda. Him and his brother have been known to protest such things.
He says he does this because of his Christian values. Yet, I doubt he knows much about the Bible itself. When I bring up the fact that the Bible is the only means to instruct us how we are to glorify God; quoting from the Westminster Catechism with Scriptural proofs. He will say of course we are to glorify God. However in the rest of his reply, he seems to ignore everything in the catechism but the glorifying God part.
I have tried over and over to get him to focus on how we should glorify God and his response is always the same. He thinks educating ourselves on the left wing agenda and protesting against it is glorifying God. I told him that there is certainly nothing wrong with educating ourselves and protesting; but there is a lot more to it than that.
He seems deaf to this however.

Tom