Today I watched a podcast that I have a habit of doing every Thursday or Friday, called ‘The Sword & the Trowel Podcast’. This particular one had to do with a book by guest named James Baird called ‘King of Kings’.
Although James Baird is a Presbyterian and the ‘Sword & the Trowel Podcast’ is Reformed Baptist. This particular book resounded with the hosts, and they invited him onto the podcast.
The subject is something that really caught my attention, because in the last 8-10 years, the matter of the government and the Church, is constantly being brought up.
This is a book that I think I may be reading in the future.
Here is a little commentary about the book.
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The size of this book belies its value and usefulness to Christians who need to be disabused of Enlightenment notions of governmental neutrality in matters of religion and morality. If God charges civil magistrates to promote what is good and punish what is evil, then His definitions of good and evil must be employed to evaluate how well they are doing their jobs. The Christian Bible, which reveals the Christian religion, is the place where those definitions are found. James Baird demonstrates that this connection between God’s mandate and God’s standard necessitates the argument for which he contends—that ‘government must promote Christianity as the only true religion.’ That thesis can understandably give pause to an old Baptist heart like mine. However, as Baird lays out his case, mining the riches of historic, Protestant political theology in the process, he successfully allays my fears and strengthens my understanding of and appreciation for both the Bible’s teachings on civil government and the constitutional republic we have in the United States. This book does not confuse church and state but sees both under the lordship of Jesus Christ with peculiar responsibilities assigned by Him. Thus, by ‘promote,’ he does not mean that the government has the responsibility to fulfill the duties of the church. Rather, he argues—rightly in my estimation—that the ‘common good’ which government must seek to cultivate can only be found in the Christianity revealed by the one, true God. This book will be a great help to anyone who wants to think carefully about religion and politics. —Tom Ascol, President, Founders Ministries
Just a few quick thoughts with reflection on the here and now:
The government is seemingly not seeking to cultivate the common good in our day. The government and the unregenerate, secular realm is not neutral and without God’s retraining Hand is downright hostile to not only Christianity but natural law principles.
But the most important point because I think it’s the one we can make some progress in attacking is not only is the public square not neutral. The replacement for the endorsement and acknowledgment of true religion is false RELIGION. The void that is employed under the guise of neutrality is typically anti-Christian. So religion is promoted, as neutrality is a myth. Unfortunately, the religion that is being employed is one of the many anti-Christ varieties.
I’d love for an awakening to occur.
“If God charges civil magistrates to promote what is good and punish what is evil, then His definitions of good and evil must be employed to evaluate how well they are doing their jobs. ’”
The passage of scripture - Romans 13 - always confused me. Is that representative of God’s decree and greater good, e.g., plan of salvation? Obviously, some of the greatest evil flourishes above the control of the lesser magistrate. So the evil that is punished is sins against citizens by fellow citizens. But the evil ideology of princes and principalities in high places is not necessarily touched. I’d like Pilgrim to weigh in on Romans 13 specifically.
Covid emergency measures would be an example of secular priorities to the detriment of the average citizen.
Also, consider how the media in conjunction with experts in various fields are used to promote an authoritarian voice. That monopoly will also have to be brought down if a greater authority is to be employed and adhered to.
Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Oct 17, 20252:17 PM.
From what I have been listening to on the podcast. I don’t think it would disagree with you on this.
However, it uses documents such the WCF, talking about what is the responsibility of the Church and what is the responsibility of the government. Regardless of if they actually fulfill these responsibilities or not.
In other words, God is King over every sphere and each sphere will be held responsible for their part.
This is not to be confused with a theocracy.
I encourage you to watch the podcast and think through it.
Ok, I’ll listen. A movement that will expose the myth of neutrality and the state’s promotion and endorsement of other religions is certainly one I’d get behind. I know some 2Kers believe that even a Pagan ruler can be just but I think eventually the priorities get all messed up.
Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Oct 17, 20252:08 PM.
I would like Pilgrim to comment on the 27min mark of the video. I’m not sure how to rectify that. We don’t want the state promoting PC(USA) so how would that work?
This is not advocating for either, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc… It is advocating for the government advocating Christianity. If we read Romans chapter 13 for example, we see exactly the purpose for government. It should be good to the law abiding citizens and a terror for those who break the law. Yet, you can’t read the chapter and not see that their authority comes from God and as such logically they will be held responsible to God. Similarly to how the Church and the family are under God.
Romans of course was written by Paul, when Israel was being ruled by Rome. Yet, the same principle holds true.
America in particular, was built upon biblical principles, that come from the 10 Commannds.
Yet in recent years, government has tried to be neutral when in actuality neutrality is a myth.
I disagree with you. He is not advocating for anything that people like Calvin, Luther, Gill, Owen, John Murray and even the WCF does not advocate for.
“One nation under God.” Where do you think that comes from? Which God is it talking about?
Romans of course was written by Paul, when Israel was being ruled by Rome. Yet, the same principle holds true.
America in particular, was built upon biblical principles, that come from the 10 Commannds.
Yet in recent years, government has tried to be neutral when in actuality neutrality is a myth.
I believe this was explained more in the podcast.
Tom
So America is historically ok? Why was it ok? And what would we have to do to get back there? As I listen to this guy he gets pretty shady and just ignores the hard questions.
Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Oct 17, 20254:05 PM.
I think another issue I have is one of the reasons our society is so messed up, especially in America, is cause our foods are made with horrible ingredients that are making us sick and disabled. Divorce and violence plagues are society. Our healthcare practices are making us sicker. All these factors are necessitating bigger government to maintain order and stabilize things. Christianizing the government won’t help when society is so messed up. This author at one point sounds like he wants to trade in the Constitution for a monarchy as if a Christian monarch is going to solve our problems. These guys want to take bad circumstances, typically created by those who are driven by their lusts, and Christianize the solution. Jefferson hated John Calvin. I don’t think John Calvin is going to be the template for fixing our government at this point and time…. https://thelogcollege.wordpress.com/2022/11/16/whos-afraid-of-john-calvin-answer-thomas-jefferson/
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Calvinism, Jefferson feared, heralded the reclamation of the medieval imagination that he believed benighted the world for one thousand years. Jefferson need not have worried about Virginia. The changes made to the Westminster Confession in 1789 took the last serious teeth out of Calvinist political theology, and most serious Protestants in the Commonwealth saw disestablishment as prudential, if not good. New Englanders and the occasional Carolinian remained more circumspect.
Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Oct 17, 20255:04 PM.
I disagree with you. He is not advocating for anything that people like Calvin, Luther, Gill, Owen, John Murray and even the WCF does not advocate for.
“One nation under God.” Where do you think that comes from? Which God is it talking about?
Tom
You’ll have to expand on that and relate it directly to America’s founding. Is this a direct correlation? I acknowledge that the theology of two kingdom did evolve but why did it evolve and how do we go back exactly?
“Protestants teach unanimously that it is incumbent on kings to find out, receive, embrace, and promote the truth of the gospel, and the worship of God appointed therein, confirming, protecting, and defending it, by their regal power and authority.” —John Owen, A Vindication of the Animadversions on Fiat Lux, 1664
You said he gets pretty shady and ignores the hard questions.
As I listened to him and Tom Ascol, who is one of my favourite theologians. I detected absolutely no shadiness or ignoring the hard questions. Could he have expanded further on those questions? Absolutely, but with the time allotted, I think he did a good job. I assume, some of these questions are dealt with deeper in the book.
What I saw were people who in the last 10 years, had to dig deeper into what they believe on subjects like this. Tom Ascol along with his good friend Voddie Baucham (now with the Lord), have been talking about this subject and related issues for quite some time now.
Voddie Baucham was not only theologian, he also was a Church historian. Which is one of the reasons why I appreciated them so much. They referred a lot to Reformers, the Confessions and others who understood that we stand on the shoulders of the people that went before us.
Many modern theologians, seem almost to divorce themselves from the past.
There are of course, people today that go too far to the other extreme. For example, I would not advocate for Rushdoony’s Reconstructionism.
During Covid, as you know there was a lot of government overreach, especially in Canada and in California where John MacArthur’s Church had to take a stand against Governor Neusom. MacArthur’s Church won in court; but many in the Reformed Community, especially those with T4G, came out strongly against him. I paid a price with my own family and friends. When I did not get the Covid vaccination. Many pastors including my daughter’s pastor came out strongly against Churches and Christians that would not comply with government mandates. They referred to Romans 13 as so called proof that, the government is within their right to do what they did.
The context of Romans 13 of course, does not give them the right to do what they did.
