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#11052
Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,025 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,025 Likes: 274 |
I strongly believe that worshiping a graven image of either the Father or the Son would be idolatry, but when it comes to the issue of images in general, apart from worship, is there not a distinction between God the Father and Jesus Christ? Dan, The traditional, historical view, which I also have come to understand as the biblical teaching concerning the 2nd Commandment is that it consists of two parts: 1)the prohibition of making ANY images of any kind, which supplant the Deity or as a representation of any of the three persons of the Trinity. 2) The prohibition of either worshiping those images or using them to facilitate the worship of the Deity, in part or in total. This prohibition against creating "images" would include one's "imagination" where it is used to create a "likeness" of one or all of the three persons. In other words, it would be sin to try to conjure up an "appearance" of God; to create in one's mind a picture of what God looks like. That should cover one of your questions, particular where you asked, " Am i breaking the second commandment when i visualize in my mind Christ on the cross?" Now, as to the "Passion of Christ" movie and how/if it is in violation of the 2nd Commandment, given that the God was seen as human flesh in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. First of all, the incarnate God WAS "God in the flesh". That is, the Lord Christ was no "representation" but the real thing. People didn't converse or walk with an "image" made with hands or with an apparition that was the result of one's vivid imagination. (Jh 1:14; Col 2:9; 1Tim 3:16; 1Jh 4:2) The salient issue is that of the duel natures of Christ, which was established once for all at the Fourth Ecumenical Council, held at Chalcedon, in 451. One of the fundamental statements of that Creed is that the two natures of Christ are "inseparable"; i.e., we cannot alienate the divine nature from the human nature. Thus, for someone to play the part of the Lord Christ, without dishonoring, diminishing or distorting His person as God incarnate, the actor would have to display BOTH the perfect divinity AND the perfect humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ. In short, that person would have to BE Jesus Christ. Every thought, word and deed; everything must exude perfect holiness. For the Lord Christ told His disciples, John 14:9 (KJV) "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?" One must ask, Is it even conceivable that a sinful human being could faithfully become an "image" of God in the exact manner as Jesus Christ? What human being, who knows anything of the True and Living God, would have the audacity to think that they could portray God in the flesh? Is it even possible that a man, even the most righteous man on earth, could even exhibit but one of Christ's attributes in such a way as to not blaspheme the very name of God? A secondary but still important matter is that an actor's main responsibility is to play a part so well, that those in the audience will not see the actor, per se, but the individual being portrayed. In short, the main objective is to get the audience to "identify" with the person the actor is portraying . . . aka: imaging another. The overwhelming reviews that have come out state that after seeing this film, one is driven to at least "contemplation" and even "worship". But one must ask, What is it that people contemplate? And to what are they offering worship? Is it the one True and Living God Who has revealed Himself in the inspired text? or is it the image displayed on the screen by an actor? One thing I do know, is that the Lord Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again from the dead and now sits at the right hand of God in glory with a glorified/resurrection body. This same Jesus sent the Holy Spirit as His "replacement/representative" to both reveal Him and to dwell in those whom He has revealed Himself by the Spirit. To the degree (quality) we know Christ, we will honor Him and worship Him in spirit and truth. We are to walk by faith and not by sight!"Should the Lord Jesus appear now to any of us in His majesty and glory, it would not be to our edification nor consolation. For we are not meet nor able, by the power of any light or grace that we have received, or can receive, to bear the immediate appearance and representation of them. His beloved apostle John had leaned on His bosom probably many a time in his life, in the intimate familiarities of love; but when He afterward appeared to him in His glory, "he fell at his feet as dead" (Rev. 1:17). And when He appeared to Paul, all the account he could give thereof was "that he saw a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun"; where-upon he and all that were with him 'fell to the ground' (Acts 26:13,14)." — John Owen "The Glory of Christ" p. 174 In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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John_C
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Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:21 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:49 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Henry
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Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:58 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:56 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:57 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Henry
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Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:17 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:36 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:44 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:20 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Henry
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:38 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:03 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:03 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:36 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:07 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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4Ever_Learning
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:38 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:03 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Tom
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:26 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:44 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Tom
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Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:19 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Henry
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Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:47 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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fredman
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Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:52 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Tom
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Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:07 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:10 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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jfschultz
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Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:58 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:57 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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lazarus
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Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:23 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:22 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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lazarus
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:53 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:34 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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MarieP
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:22 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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MarieP
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:05 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:18 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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lazarus
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:31 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:14 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:16 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:14 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:04 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:10 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:47 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:52 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:08 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:40 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:52 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:54 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:00 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:49 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:06 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:23 PM
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Question:
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E_F_Grant
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Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:45 PM
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Re: Question:
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Pilgrim
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Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:54 PM
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Re: Question:
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E_F_Grant
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Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:27 PM
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Re: Question:
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:34 PM
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Re: Question:
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E_F_Grant
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Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:51 PM
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Re: Question:
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:37 PM
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Re: Question:
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E_F_Grant
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Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:30 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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4Ever_Learning
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:45 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:07 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:20 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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4Ever_Learning
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Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:03 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:42 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:04 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Tom
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Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:10 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:19 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Henry
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Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:11 AM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:37 AM
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At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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MarieP
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:18 AM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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Tom
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:52 AM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:47 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:12 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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MarieP
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:19 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:29 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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MarieP
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:52 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:01 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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MarieP
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:01 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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Tom
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:16 AM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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fredman
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:47 PM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:23 PM
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Re: At least SOME
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:36 AM
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Re: At least SOME
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Ruth
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:47 AM
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Re: At least SOME pastors have a level head about this
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lazarus
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:35 PM
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Evangelization and the Passion
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Henry
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Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:57 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:08 PM
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Re: The Passion movie and the 2nd Commandment
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John_C
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Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:30 AM
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