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#20203
Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Persnickety Presbyterian 
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OP
Persnickety Presbyterian 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040 |
That is simply not true. There is but one Catholic Catechism which gives the Catholic Faith to all who wish to know what it is and to obey it.
What you are referring to are the dissidents, rebels, and outright heretics who infest the Church. Their rebellion and teaching is not the official voice of the Church. That the Roman Church does not root out the dissidents, rebels, and heretics which openly and loudly infest her is further witness against her. But all in all, the Roman Church is inclined to seek unity in ritual practice and government to the detriment of unity in faith and doctrine. This is part of why the Roman Church is more eager to pursue ecumenicism than are the Eastern Orthodox. Again, sir, you do not know what you are talking about. There is a very small difference between the praxis of the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches. It mostly has to do with the issue of the papacy and the "filioque" clause of the Nicene Creed.
Orthodox and Catholic are agreed on the number of the Sacraments, of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, on being "born again" in baptism, in liturgical format, and just a host of other things. Of course, neither the issue of papal authority nor the controversy regarding the filioque are matters readily dismissed. The papacy goes straight to the heart of what constitutes the church and how the church is to be governed, and the filioque has profound implications on the understanding of the nature of the Trinity. But what about the differences in the theory of the atonement between the Roman and Eastern Orthodox Churches? This issue is highlighted in the very article that began this thread: whether Christ's death was a ransom to appease God's wrath against man (the Western view, which is attacked as making God hateful and unloving) or whether Christ's death was a ransom to purchase sinners from Satan (which is the common Eastern view). Or how about basic anthropological differences, i.e., that the West believes that the guilt of original sin extends to all the descendants of Adam, whereas the East rejects that view? Are these matters so unimportant? As my name should indicate, I am Eastern Orthodox in union with Rome. Therefore, I have been to Roman Masses as well as to our own Liturgy. The differences in them are minor at best. The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are not in communion, so your union with Rome means either that you are going against the authority of the Eastern Orthodox church or else that you are not a member of her. While the Roman Church sees the Eastern Orthodox as a kind of sister to Rome, the Eastern Orthodox insists that she is the fullness of the Church. The Autocephalous Orthodox Church in North America (OCA) declaims any unity with Rome. There are no denominations in the Catholic Faith like there are in Protestantism. The idea of a denomination indicates major disagreement about some point of doctrine or administration of the denomination. For instance, Lutherans are different from Baptists because Baptists do not accept "baptismal regeneration". The difference between the Coptic Church, the Byzantine Church, and the Roman Church, to name a couple, is an ethnic difference. We all adhere to the same Catechism of the Church and have the same head over the Church -- the Holy Father in Rome. There is a major administrative difference between the churches of the "Catholic Faith" as you've defined it, and it centers on the Bishop of Rome, which only those churches in communion with him accept his unique authority as vicar of Christ. The entire body of Eastern Orthodoxy rejects the Roman pontiff's supreme authority. And I have already pointed out a few doctrinal and theological differences. That both the Roman and Eastern churches belong in principle to the sacerdotal type (as do the Anglo-Catholics) does not annul their differences. I could rightly mention that the Protestant churches are generally in agreement as to the centrality of the Scripture over and above tradition, the number of the sacraments, the rejection of a single visible head of the church, the penal substitution theory of the atonement, and the importance of faith-based justification, but their differences still remain. I agree. However, when Jesus prayed that the Church be one, I think He had in mind complete unity. Therefore, I don't think that any more "churches" than one is acceptable or what God had in mind. Fair enough, but note the words of Paul: "For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you" (I Cor. 11:19). We await the coming day when the church shall truly be one, and we work to bring it about through the preaching of the gospel and adherence to the faith once delivered and handed down to us through the Scripture; but if we cannot be united in the truth, we must be divided by it. Truth is non-negotiable.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
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Entire Thread
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Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:55 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:55 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:55 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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gotribe
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Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:14 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:00 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:39 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:52 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:20 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:51 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:46 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:41 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:56 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:06 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:41 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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gotribe
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:46 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:47 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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gotribe
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:56 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:36 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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gotribe
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:10 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:14 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:18 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:15 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:37 PM
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You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:54 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:58 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:08 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:27 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:09 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:05 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:25 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:32 AM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:17 PM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:45 PM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:47 PM
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Re: You are confused.... .
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:13 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:15 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:44 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:07 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:14 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:23 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:26 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:06 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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gotribe
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Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:08 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:45 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:36 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:49 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:53 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:28 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:31 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:49 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:27 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:20 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:32 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:35 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:50 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Pilgrim
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Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:50 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:08 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:30 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:43 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:50 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:57 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:50 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:00 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:01 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:10 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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MarieP
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:10 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:45 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:51 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:52 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:25 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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gotribe
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:44 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:19 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:07 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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gotribe
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:10 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:37 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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MarieP
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:42 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:16 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Peter
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:30 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:41 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:03 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:47 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:30 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Peter
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:09 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:15 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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MarieP
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:31 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:37 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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MarieP
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:28 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:52 PM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:41 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:57 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:41 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:03 AM
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Re: Some meat for the dogs . . .
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Adopted
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:46 AM
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