speratus said: My questions on your questions were all revelant to the topic. Here's my answers to my questions: God did not command the fall of the devils or of Adam. Gen. 2:17; 2 Peter 2:4. God does not command evil works of fallen men. James 1:13-15.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, although you shall be judged for holding error. The most wicked act ever committed by men was crucifixion of the Lord Christ. And it is CLEARLY said to have occurred and it could have only occurred due to the eternal determinate counsel of God.
Quote
Acts 2:22-24 (ASV) "Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know; him, being delivered up <span style="background-color:yellow">by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God</span>, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay: whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 4:26-28 (ASV) "The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against his Anointed: for of a truth in this city against thy holy Servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, <span style="background-color:yellow">to do whatsoever thy hand and thy council foreordained to come to pass.</span>"<br>
Where do you see, in that passage, God commanding the soldiers to execute Christ?
Quote
It is by God's foreordination that ALL THINGS, right down to the movement of the smallest particle of matter, the very thoughts of men and creatures, come to be and are providentially guided to their appointed ends.
Yes, where did I dispute that?
Quote
Quote
speratus sputtered: Yes, to all with the understanding that "ordain" does not mean that God causes, authors, predestinates, or commands evil.
You simply can't choose to change the definition of a biblical term to suit your own preconceived ideas! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> This fictitious "god" of yours doesn't meet the biblical definition of deity.
I did not change your definition of ordain. You now wish to change your definition so that God does evil.
Quote
For, you have a "god" who has no power over what comes to pass but who can only react to the evil acts of devils and men after they occur since according to you, these acts have not been preordained. Thus devils and wicked men act apart from the sovereign power and authority of God. Sure sounds like Dualism to me. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />
No. It is your god that is powerless. He must issue evil commands inorder to accomplish his purposes. If God ordains something (and He ordains everything), it is good not evil by definition. But you have set up a god who is the author of good and evil. Now that's dualism.
Quote
R.C. Sproul was 100% correct... reject the biblical teaching on God's absolute sovereignty over all things in both power and AUTHORITY, whereby all things have been foreordained by His perfect and immutable counsel and you fall headlong into Atheism. What I find most ironic about you, dear speratus, is that you reject any and all biblical teaching concerning the free-agency of man in regard to salvation but equally reject the sovereignty of God over fallen angels and men. You have created the proverbial puppets that are saved by God's sovereign power but these same puppets, who you have said on many an occasion don't even have the freedom of will to sin, that are doing wickedness which God has nothing to do with. Sorry... but that's not only illogical, it is utterly irrational. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bingo.gif" alt="" />
I see your view as illogical. Unregenerate men are in bondage to Satan so they have no free will to do good or evil. They will inevitably do evil because of their bound will. But, according to your view, they are in bondage to God and He is holding the strings commanding them to sin and yet they still have free-will to do evil.
