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Pilgrim said:

What you are saying ----> appears <---- to be this: Where "great" men such as Spurgeon and Sproul can be found, there will be (always?) godly men and women who will have an interest in "meaty" Bible Studies such as those which were referred to in the original question of this thread and which the men of that church had no interest. So, on this point, if I have understood you right, we are going to have to disagree. Although it is most important that preachers/teachers of the Word fulfill their respective positions responsibly and biblically, there is never a guarantee that in doing so there will be fruit.

Yes I agree. I was simply asking what the situation was in her church? Because I believe that if it's a liberal church where the gospel isn't preached from the pulpit and the sermons aren't convicting or centered on Christ then that "might" explain why there aren't very many people interested in meeting.

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So again, by way of example, faithful and sound preaching/teaching does NOT guarantee positive and immediate results.

Yes, I'm not disputing this, your absolutely correct. Again I made sure to be clear in my last reply that I never mentioned an "immediate" result. I'm talking long term here. Yes I agree, even if a preacher does everything right, it's still up to God. Example = Jonathan Edwards.

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Thirdly, if as you write, that with sound preaching and teaching, unregenerate persons will leave rather than endure that type of ministry. IF that were true, then what we should see is that in those churches where a faithful ministry exists, there will be no unregenerate individuals but rather only those who have come to know Christ and desire to grow in grace.

That's not what I said. I simply said that there would be a lot of people who would leave to go to other liberal churches. But that there will always be unregenerate in the visible church.

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However, I have to insist that this does not represent reality. I have been in a few churches where the preaching and teaching was "to die for"! Yet, in those churches only a minority of men came out to the myriad studies offered; whether in the church itself or those held privately in homes. So, I have to wonder where you would find fault? . . . would you say that my assessment of the preaching and teaching was in error because if it was sound all the men would have attended the classes? Or, would you conclude that something was awry with the spiritual condition of those men who didn't attend; not excluding that there are sometimes extenuating circumstances which would prevent full attendance?

My good man.... may I tell you that even at Westminster Seminary where one could have experienced some of the most biblically sound teaching and preaching, there were young men who were far from God. And may I also tell you that at one Baptist seminary where I studied, despite the woefully "weak" teaching and preaching there were men who were indisputably of faith and conviction.

God works in mysterious ways and calls men to faith and discipleship from everywhere, albeit in some cases in spite of where they are found.

Agreed again.

But.... if it were the situation where the preaching was first rate, doctrinally sound, Christ centered and so on. If there were sermons about biblical roles of man and women. If there were attempts from the church leaders to encourage men to come to the studies, then we would have to conclude that yes, it's time to leave it up to God and pray for a revival.

But on the other hand, if none of the above is happening in the church, then we might be able to conclude that church is failing at it's task of the sanctification of it's body.

But we don't know what the situation in this particular church is, so it's hard to really say for sure what the problem is.
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Dave.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16