I've been watching lectures on Luther and I just finished watching a discussion of the debate between Luther and Zwingli and the Lord's Supper. The discussion left me with a lot of questions but the commentary was fascinating nonetheless.

It seems Calvin's position regarding The Lord's Supper would fall somewhere between Z. & L.'s.

I have some questions/observations regarding this issue. I'd like everybody's feedback.


1) what exactly is a sacrament - was the Lord's Supper always considered a "sacrament" or simply a faithful command.

2) when scriptures say the "flesh avails nothing" what exactly does that mean?

3) if people who take the body and blood unworthily do so under condemnation are we to believe that Jesus is actually really PRESENT in the wine and bread regardless of whether the person participating has true faith or not?

4) Z. & L. argue that Jesus is one essence/two entities vs one essence/one entity respectively. To clarify: Z. believes Jesus PHYSICAL body is in Heaven but He is spiritually present everywhere while L. does not make this distinction and says since God is everywhere and Jesus sits at the right hand of the father His body is also everywhere including the bread and wine.

So while Luther argues "THIS IS MY BODY" literally means this is my body! Zwingli argue "THIS IS MY BODY" signifies this is my body. While Calvin seems to be in-between that the Supper is not a mere memorial but that only Jesus' spiritual presence exists in the bread and wine not the physical.

5)However, does Calvin believe that the spiritual presence is there for the non-believers that partake or is the spiritual presence dependent upon our internal faith?

The commentator argues in favor of the Lutheran view that the power of the sacrament is not dependent upon what WE bring to the table but is something external that exists in the sacrament & words of promise associated with Jesus' real presence which is dependent on/& effectual outside ourselves and which is why we are condemned if we partake in unbelief (in that aspect the state of hearts does play a part). But we look outside ourselves to Jesus for inward strengthening/grace rather than looking inside ourselves. While it is only effectual for the believer and condemning for the unbeliever.

I hope my concerns make sense - this is pretty heavy stuff and hard to convey.

thanks!

Last edited by AC.; Fri May 16, 2008 2:13 PM.
The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine