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DanielRitchie said:

Thanks for the welcome; I suppose what I am asking is are they non-elect reprobated as men or as sinners? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />

Daniel,

That, I believe, involves the supra- & infralapsarian debate, as Pilgrim has suggested. I lean more toward infralapsarianism, i.e., that God made his decrees of election & reprobation in consideration of a fallen humanity. But I'm not certain that we can come to a sure conclusion between these two positions from the scriptural evidence.

Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.