I think Greg summed it up perfectly with: <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]If He made us such that we could act out of character, our actions would be random and meaningless. For I could want to help an old lady cross the street but end up spitting on her and walking away instead.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Even if we were free in the Arminian sense, which would mean that we could choose contrary to how we would, we could never know that we had such freedom unless God in His word told us. In other words, wouldn't someone have to be omniscient to know that his choices were not being caused by something in the universe? This should at least make the Arminian pause. The best point is pasted above, I believe. The irony is, Arminianism actually destroys human responsibility by allowing for choices to spring from nothing, without ryhme reason or cause.<br><br>Ron