I dunno, Some times I feel a lot of the difference between the two views is one semantics. Ask an Arminian what the Calvinist view is, then ask a Calvinist what the Arminian view is, then check the two answers against what each would self-describe and you would think that two different languages are being spoken. <br><br>I was delighted to see you quote from the ESV--it is my favorite, with #2 way back in the pack<br><br>gil

gil