The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Divorce

Shall I continue to sin that Grace may abound all the more?
If a person is a prostitute and they get saved, should
they remain a prostitute?

No, they should repent and leave the life of prostitution.
Should an illegitimate marriage continue?
What about gay marriages, they are recognized by some
states, but are illegitimate in God’s eyes and should be
dissolved. The same with other illegitimate marriages.

So then you are implying that one is not born again then? If they are in an "adulterous marriage?" Or that there are some verses that are more important to obey than others?

For instance, one who was not saved before they were born again.. if they are in an "adulterous marriage" there is no remedy. God still calls it a marriage in Rom. 7, and 1 Cor. 7:27-28 are pretty clear. It fits with the meaning of the entire passage.. so "stay within the state you are called." It doesn't add, "unless you are married to someone who is divorced."

Not to mention that in the same book, it commands believers to STAY with believers. In the old and new testament, it is very clear that when we make a covenant, it must be kept even to our own hurt! So which do we obey? Under your ideas, God shouldn't have even messed with such a person anyway.

I also notice in the one paper, the second link, that there are all sorts of advice given for different situations. Where if a divorce happens in the eyes of the law, under the guise of an 'adulterous marriage' that there are situations that would be inappropriate to remarry. Where are all the scriptures that give these mandates?? What's up with you?

Your theology does not stay consistant with the new covenant.

Michele

so what are you saying? That a woman who is in a marriage, where one is divorced, that she is a prostitute? or gay? these don't even compare.

Since when does salvation nullify a marriage? It doesn’t.

A Christian who is married to a non-Christian is a valid
marriage if that is what you are asking.

If you keep reading through 1 Cor. 7 you will see alot
of excellent verses that are rock solid for marriage foundations.

1CO 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

1CO 7:39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is--and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

I need specific examples as that what you are talking about
on the other stuff. I am not sure where you are looking. Can you
post some examples?

I was using the word “prostitute” as an example of one who is living in sin
and to repent would leave the life of prostitution. For an example of repentance.
Or if a man struggled with pornography, he should throw away his porn and so
on to not continue in sin. Again, I was just using this as an illustration of repentance.

I was using the example of a gay marriage to show the illegitimacy of that type
of marriage. It is valid in the Worlds eyes, but not God’s.

If a person is in an illegitimate marriage, they should do what scripture says and repent.
If their original legitimate spouse is still alive, they have no business being in a relationship with someone else. The Word is very clear on this.

Let me make something clear here too, in case you have not figured it out. I am NOT talking about those out there who divorce over some discomfort, or come up with very creative ways to call their divorce "biblical," Or try and come up with a reason why divorce is okay. I agree that divorce is rampant in "christendom." But there are many situations out there where people are remarried.

here is the example, from the book. under the heading of:
"If an unscriptural relationship is terminated, and one party never has had a legitimate marriage, is that person free to marry?"

"This question and the next one are very difficult questions to face. Situations can vary considerably. And no matter how thorough or meticulous we are in defining a valid marriage, new situations have a way of adding a twist we had not considered and must weigh carefully. In applying Scriptural principles to these situations, Christians have not always arrived at the same conclusions. When we face these questions in actual experience, therefore, we do best to draw from the wisdom of a spiritual brotherhood, rather than trusting personal conclusions alone. All that we do must be to the glory of God (I Corinthians 10:31). All we do must have the effect of edification in the brotherhood (Romans 15:2). All we do must be above reproach before a watching world (I Peter 2:12).

and later:


"There are, however, more factors to consider than one's strict marital status when determining how "free" one is to marry. Although a person may not be disqualified from marriage by a former marriage bond, he may have other bonds and obligations which make marriage inappropriate. Paul asks, "Know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh" (I Corinthians 6:16). Although the physical union is not a marriage bond, it is a physical bond. It is also an emotional bond. And it may be a procreative bond. THE MORE TANGLED THESE BONDS, THE MORE INAPPROPRIATE MARRIAGE WOULD BE.

Whuh? Who says? Who are you to make these assumptions/decisions?

These are the examples you asked for.

Michele

How do you know they are remarried? Because they
have a piece of paper or have a nice ceremony?
If those are the requirements of a valid marriage,
then gay marriages would be valid. Which they are not.

How do you deal with this verse?
1CO 7:39 A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. 40 In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is--and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.

That is another huge one to discuss on a different topic, since it raises the questions
of “when” are you married. Some people believe that you are married
to a person the moment you have sex with them. Which means
alot of premarital sex people would be married already, not by
vows, but the mere act of sex. That is definitely a major topic for
another discussion. I personally believe there is vows/covenant
along with the marriage consummation with your original spouse
that make for a legitimate marriage. The vows + consummation make
for a legitimate marriage with the expectation that you are not already
married to someone else. This also has historical value.

On face value, it is saying that a woman must remain with her husband as long as he lives. She made a covenant before God.

But if she hears this, having been saved after the marriage to a man who has been married before, her covenant is invalid then.. that is what you are saying. Am I undestanding this correctly?

We are also commanded to stay with unbelieving spouses, but if that unbelieving spouse is divorced, than that command is null and void then right? Is this what you are saying?

How is this an example to the unbelieving spouse? Are you suggesting that there was divorce en masse among the gentiles that Paul was teaching this to? Or are you assuming that even though divorce/remarriage was rampant at that time as well.. that there were no couples that were in what you call "adulterous remarriages?"

I hope I made sense.
Michele

John Murray, who wrote the whole article, was a graduate of the University of Glasgow (1923) and of Princeton Theological Seminary (1927), and he studied at the University of Edinburgh during 1928 and 1929. In 1929-1930 he served on the faculty of the Princeton Theological Seminary. After that he taught at the Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia where he served as Professor of Systematic Theology.

He was a frequent contributor to theological journals and is the author of Christian Baptism (1952), Divorce (1953), Redemption Accomplished and Applied (1955), Principles of Conduct (1957), The Imputation of Adam's Sin (1960), Calvin on the Scriptures and Divine Sovereignty (1960), and The Epistle to the Romans (1968). I tend to think he was assuming very little, except that which he has properly interpreted from the Greek text, which I noticed that your articles failed to do.

I hold that biblical divorce is allowed for the sin of adultery and abandonment—as stated in Scripture. When a divorce is decreed the “covenant” that was formally established is dissolved. Providing the divorce was according to the rule of Scripture—remarriage is allowed. You would do well to do some studies regarding “covenants” and how God views them, before you write any more, as you totally missed this very important issue in marriage. God can dissolve a covenant and IMHO if you will look in the Old Testament you will even find an example .

May God bless your study and further educate you more so in the truth of His Word.

MHealth,

On face value, it is saying that a woman must remain with her husband as long as he lives. She made a covenant before God.
>>>Not just remain, but the couple is bound/united to each other,
they are no longer 2, but 1 flesh

MT 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made them male and female,' 5 and said, `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

But if she hears this, having been saved after the marriage to a man who has been married before, her covenant is invalid then.. that is what you are saying. Am I undestanding this correctly?
>>>You wrote: ”to a man who has been married”
>>>”If his original spouse is still alive, he is still married legitimately to his
original spouse in God’s eyes”

We are also commanded to stay with unbelieving spouses, but if that unbelieving spouse is divorced, than that command is null and void then right? Is this what you are saying?
>>>Are you referring to:
1CO 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

The word bound here is referring to fulfilling your marital duties, sexual or otherwise.
These verses are not implying that you are unbound flesh. If it were referring to unbound flesh, then it would contradict 1 Corinthains 7:39 and we know that the bible does not contradict itself. Humans are the ones who sometimes contradict scripture.

>>>I can prove this in the Greek and will post if you need it in English

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How is this an example to the unbelieving spouse? Are you suggesting that there was divorce en masse among the gentiles that Paul was teaching this to? Or are you assuming that even though divorce/remarriage was rampant at that time as well.. that there were no couples that were in what you call "adulterous remarriages?"

>>>Not sure what you mean by this last part, please explain

yes, actually, Joe, i was about to bring up the issue of covenants. From my own study as a new christian on the subject.. in reference to this very issue of remarriage, I discovered that we are commanded to keep even foolishly made covenants.

Michele

That is nice that he graduated, however I chose to believe the Word of God
over the words of a man.

If you would like to refute what those 2 papers state,
please do so biblically. Thank you

I think you're reading a contradiction that isn't there. A believer is no longer bound by marriage to his unbelieving spouse if she leaves him. The unbeliever has effectively freed the believer from the marriage bond. Otherwise, a wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives.