The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Did Adam Fall or Did He Jump?

I know this is dumb, but I can't help but wonder when I hear
people speak of Adam and his first sin and how according to 1Tim 2:14 the women was deceived and than the man Not being deceived transgressed.
Adam Knew what he was doing when he sinned, so how come we speak of it as a fall, as if it were an accident? Was not his sin open rebellion against God? Just wondering.

Thanks.


Jesus
is
Good

Well, I doubt he intended to lose his perfect goodness.

I think you are wrestling with semantics here. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> When we say that Adam "fell" or the "Fall", it is referring to him "falling from grace", or "falling out of favor with God", or "falling from his original relationship", etc. It isn't referring to the manner of his transgression. His transgression was a willful disobedience. He deliberately chose to ignore the commandment and the penalty which would follow. I'm sure we all can identify with that act of willful disobedience in our own lives. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

How long do you think he remained in the state of Goodness?
Pink believes he fell on the very first day before the sunset. Not sure myself.


Peace.

No one is sure. Pink is at best guessing. There are many theories from less than a day to 1000s of years (of course they sure weren't obeying the Divine call to be fruitful and multiply if it was this long <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />). IMHO it was soon after his creation, but how soon, only God and Adam/Eve know.

As Joe remarked, one can only guess. But if I had to guess, I would lean toward him [Adam] falling on the first day. It actually pains me to think that it was that soon; can't exactly explain why, although it might be perhaps my heart is envious of Adam and Eve, they having the incredible blessedness of actually walking in the Garden with the Lord and conversing with Him as they did. Yet, that envy will be satisfied in the New Heaven and New Earth in due time. And lastly, if was me instead of Adam in that situation, I would probably have fallen within minutes of my creation instead at the end of the day, or whenever it was that Adam disobeyed, knowing how my own heart works. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

Pilgrim,

I agree of course that it could have been the first day, but I see some tensions in the text that keep me from fully accepting this.

Gen 1:31, 2:2 says, "And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day....And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." This to me says that the sixth day (Adam's first) was completed and there was no fall "yet," for it was called "very good." Thus the day is IMHO shown to end and then we see God resting on the seventh day (other interpretations are of course possible). We also have the naming of all the animals and his little nap that he took—a busy day to say the least (of course, it would even have been busier had he fallen <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />). Thus, I still wonder. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

Joe,

Good point! To be honest, I replied in haste and actually stated my very tentative position wrongly. I have held for some time, that Adam fell on the Sabbath Day and not as I wrote on the day which he was created!

Regardless.... it's still a guess at best but one which I am comfortable with when compared to some of the other "guesses" which other people have offered. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

I have read one article moons ago (link no longer works) where someone stated that "very good" could have included the fall itself because it was according to God's plan. In the article they alleged that the fall actually happened on the 6th day and then God rests on the 7th as His plan is in motion. But, IMHO this stretches the meaning too much of "very good," but then there is Rom 8. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

I dunno. I always thought it happened sometime during the first week after creation. I suppose it could have happened after several months. It is certain, anyway, that it happened before they had any children.

It's quite possible that perfection lasted for decades. Adam had Seth at 130, and we're not told what sort of gap there was from the fall to Seth's birth. Kent Hovind, a creationist, places the fall at about 100 years after creation. There's nothing in the text that would disallow this.

True enough.

If this is true then wouldn't Adam and Eve be disobeying, or at least delaying, the Divine mandate to be fruitful and multiply? Me thinks He made Adam and Eve mature from the beginning so they would begin.... A 100 year lag time does not seem to match the mandate of God IMHO. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

IMHO the mandate was given to be obeyed "somewhat immediately," and not with a long lag time. If God would not have desired a "somewhat immediacy" then He could have easily waited to tell Adam this mandate later. In addition,

1. Adam would have found his wife attractive, thus...the natural order that God had set in place would have....
2. There was no sin and thus conception would have been immediate.
3. What a honeymoon no sex for 100 years?

Of course, this is all speculation on our parts. IMHO the mandate was given to be obeyed "somewhat immediately," and not with a long lag time. If God would not have desired a "somewhat immediacy" then He could have easily waited to tell Adam this mandate later. In addition,

1. Adam would have found his wife attractive, thus...the natural order that God had set in place would have....
2. There was no sin and thus conception would have been immediate.
3. What a honeymoon no sex for 100 years?

Hey, Joe,

My mistake on misinterpreting your post. That's why I deleted it <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I realized what you meant after I responded. That's a good point you have! Since Cain was the first born, either the Lord didn't give them kids until then or the fall must have happened very soon after the creation.

Othwise, you'd have Adam and Eve producing kids with no sin nature, which is impossible.