The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum True Worship John 4:23

Does any Church or denomination have an advantage concerning the way they worship as opposed to the different forums of worship within the body of Christ? Now I am speaking of reformed worship in general, not Charismatic, Pentecostal or seeker friendly types of worship services that is in the mainstream Christian culture today.
What I mean by advantage is, a more pure form of worship that is more in line with scripture than what some would think to be less so. I have in mind psalm singing in particular. I have heard of some who advocate the singing of psalms to the exclusion of any other types of music in worship service. Some would go so far as to say that those who do not incorporate the singing of psalms in public worship are public idolaters and are not worshiping God in the way He would have us to worship Him. I have yet to find a scripture to support such a claim and If any one knows of one, I would appreciate it if you could show me where it is.
If it is true that the singing of psalms is the only music allowed in public worship, does that mean than that the other 98% (wild guess) of churches in the Reformed faith are committing public idolatry every Sunday, and if so, should they abandon their form of worship for a more controlled form of worship as those who advocate Exclusive Psalmody? Does that do damage to John 4:23? Can a person sing hymns in worship and still be worshiping God in truth
or is that sin?


Thanks.

See this article by Ra McLaughlin:
Exclusive Psalmody, No Instrumentation?

There are some very good arguments against Exclusive Psalmnody in that article (as well as an argument for instruments thrown in for good measure).

PS- I have no clue who wrote the "Follow-Up Question" at the end, and the "Answer" to it appears to not be working properly.

Also, you should read Iaian Murray's "The Psalter- the Only Hymnal?"

Hi 4Ever_Learning,

AS I am among the 2% may I just say I have never considered hymn singing to be idolatrous.I would say however as one who used to worship in a church which did sing hymns,that the practical and spiritual benefits of psalm singing are tremendous IMHO.People singing only the pure word of God without instruments is awesome.Scripture is easier remembered I believe God often speaks to us as we sing through the psalms of course.We are not dependent on an organist praise God.I will not dispute with any of my dear brethren on this subject,but do believe you greatly miss out.

IMHO you will not find the correct mode of worship practiced solely by any one denomination. You will have to look at individual churches.

The regulative principle is about as pure as it gets. Of course, singing the Psalms and other Scripture is scriptural. IMHO there is other music (within the parameters of Scripture) that is correct as well (i.e. some of the great hymns). A book I would recommend is “Give Praise to God,” edited by Philip Ryken. While it contains many articles concerning worship by Presbyterians (J. Ligon Duncan, Edmond Clowney, Hughe Oliphant Old, etc.) it also incorporates some Baptists as well (Mark Dever, Al Mohler, etc.). The book is actually celebrating the legacy of James Montgomery Boice and its forward is by R.C. Sproul. Another book to consider would be “With Reverence and Awe,” by D.G. Hart and John Muether. I know John personally and he indeed practices what is subscribed to in this work.

While no one book will IMHO answer all your questions they will most necessarily lay the foundation for you to see the truth of Scripture regarding worship.

Grace Alone,

First, let me thank you for your kind reply to this topic. You may be one of the 2% who practice Exclusive Psalmody, but you are also probably one of 2% of those who do who are aren't condemnatory toward those who don't. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

It is not uncommon for many who hold to Exclusive Psalmody to utter such things as, "I will never enter the door of any church that sings hymns!". Or, "Those who sing hymns are guilty of idolatrous worship!". Most of the churches I have been associated with sing both Psalms and biblical hymns. There have been some whose choice of hymns; lyrics and/or music has been questionable or objectionable. But I will agree with you that those who don't sing the biblical Psalms are truly missing out. And at the same time, I can honestly say that those who sing Psalms exclusively are also missing out. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

Good to hear from you as always Pilgrim,

I feel I must say in defense of my brethren it can be a bit confusing,e.g.I read many of your posts and views and believe I have benefitted from them as I have from others on here,but how can we be missing out when we rely solely on the word of God? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />

I thought you weren't going to do this? ("I will not dispute with any of my dear brethren on this subject,. . .") <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> But to answer your question as simply as I can, those who restrict their singing exclusively to the Psalms are "missing out" on the full teaching and revelation of God and His glorious redemption which the WHOLE Bible contains. It is my greatest joy to sing the very name of Jesus rather than choosing a lesser joy by singing about a type or shadow of His anticipated coming and revelation. Since our theology is established by the "whole counsel of God", it is my understanding and firm belief that our "echo" of God's truth and our praise should be likewise taken from the "whole counsel of God" and not restricted to one portion of His revelation.

I've heard most of the arguments from the proponents of Exclusive Psalmody and I have found them wanting. But as you said, you aren't desirous of getting into a debate on this topic. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Let me say as a reminder to you once again.. I heartily agree that the people of God should sing the Psalms . . . AND Hymns AND Spiritual Songs to the glory of God.

I find Irons' article quite interesting on this topic... you might also if you haven't read it already. Exclusive Psalmody or New Covenant Hymnody

In His Grace,

Very simply because the Scripture speaks about developing sound doctrine. While the Psalms are of course sound, there are other things --doctrine not in the Psalms-- that is sound as well. If we can write sound doctrine and read sound doctrine, why can't we sing it? Your missing out because God also gave us sound doctrine that appears not only in the Psalms, but elsewhere...

Thanks Marie, <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I will check it out later.



Blessings.

Thanks Joe,
Will try to check it out this weekend if time and family permits.
God bless

Hi Grace Alone,
No offense meant by my question or the percentage given, was mainly just guessing. I have no ill will toward any who sing the Psalms or desire to have more pure form of worship. What I don't understand though is the fact that of the few I have met on-line who hold dearly to EP and love fellowshipping on line with other Christians that they call brothers and sisters, but will not dare darken the door of their friends church of fear of violating their own conscience due to the fact they may sing hymns and not the inspired songs of the bible. As someone who believes in EP, do you believe that it is wrong or sin to fellowship with those who may not agree with your position concerning worship?
Not trying to put you on the spot as I don't know you personally and not sure if all who hold to your view about worship feel the same way. I have known of some who will not attend church at all solely on the ground that there is not a church around them that practices EP. I can maybe understand that but if there is a Church around that is holding to the truth of scripture and is reformed in practice would they (those who refuse to fellowship) be committing a greater sin by not fellowshipping with other believers who maybe of the same mind but may not have had knowledge about proper worship? I find it amazing that some could speak of the love of Christ and know the truths of the scriptures and yet use their knowledge as some kind of a wedge to separate themselves from others that they call
their brothers and sisters. If I am wrong about this, my apologies. It was just the impression I received while surfing the web on varies forums.

Any way, thanks for the input.


Blessings.

Pilgrim,
How does one find a Church that sings both Psalms and hymns? I wish our Church did both but I am content to stay where I am for now until the Lord leads me elsewhere.

Blessings.

Hi 4EverLearning
I am greatly saddened by your experience,I can only speak for myself and those I personally know.For myself and as an elder in the church it is part of my responsability to encourage all in my care in the faith this I do by always encouraging fellowship with other reformed believers.I have personally when on holiday for example visited other churches which sing hymns cannot see the problem.Our church is presbyterian but that would not for example hinder me from fellowship with reformed baptists.I love the psalm singing adore Gods word.The fact I am having to write this in itself is very sad as I am sure you will agree.We have enough enemies without this .I choose EP you choose hymns,free grace is what is most important.This is the only forum I come on that should be enough to explain what I believe.
Yours Brother In Christ

Duncan <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hello people,

Sorry for butting in to the conversation, but this is a topic which greately concerns me. About a year ago I joined a Reformed Presbiterian Church and coming from a Russian Baptist background I really had to struggle with their Psalms-only-no-instrument-worship (baptist+minenite/ <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bananas.gif" alt="" /> ^ <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" /> = Russian Baptist).

With that disclaimer here are mine views. Although, I do find their arguments for Psalm only worship lacking, I come to realize the ultimate superiority of it (my openion). A great step in my life of santification was to realize that it is our heart that praises God and not necessary our actions (singing and music making being an action). Here are my arguments:
- I could get the best singer in the world to sing a hymn and if he is unregenerate is he praising God with his singing?
- A person who is deaf and blind cannot possibly sing (in accord) does that mean that that person cannot praise God?
- (disclaimer) a state of one's heart (which praises God) will ultimately show its self through action (a song/ music making/ dance/ etc...)

If what above is correct then for the sake of keeping potential idolatery away from the congregation, awoiding instruments, songs, and hymns is a worthy sacrifise (which does not diminish praise, but clenses it, since praise comes from the hears). Here is a case studdy to corroborate my openion.

A. Via-Dolorossa is sung by a professional singer (a christian) he was accompanies by a professional, free-style peanist. At the end of the song, half if not more congregationalists are moved to tears.

B. An old grany comes and just reads the words of the song Via-Dolorossa, at the end of her reading, only 2 people (old ladies) are moved to tears.

Therefore: All of thoes, other, now-non-tearing people, were moved to tears in study A, not because of the trueths sung in the composition but because of the artful performence of the performers. So, art and music caused the emulation of their emotions not God's truth. The object of their effection became art not God. That is idolatery. In this case the "performers" might have trully, been worshiping God, but their true worship became the facility of other's idolatery.

When I attend my Russian congregation, in truth, I cannot sing some of the hymns due to blatently erred theology expressed in them. When I sing the psalms, I know full well, for an obsolute fact that what I am singing and what is being pronouced by me is inerrent and for a fact santifyed by God (not by the singer interpreting the meaning).

jenya andreyev

PS sorry for spelling errors, jugling many languages in my head

jenya,

Thanks for pointing out that true worship comes from the heart.


If you want a little help with spelling use the spellcheck before you post. It will help you convert your thoughts into the english language.


Wes <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />