The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Al Mohler, Singles and Church life

I had a question to ask of folks here on the highway. I have meant to bring this up earlier when it was more relevant to my thinking, but business at work, as well as KH's distraction with Middle Knowledge, kept me from exploring this with you all.

About a month or so ago I was involved with a discussion with an individual on another board over the nature of some comments Dr. Al Mohler, president of Southern Seminary in KY, had made at a national conference for college kids. The original comments by Mohler can be accessed here by either transcript or real audio:
Mohler comments about singles

The basic sum of his comments centers around his thoughts about singles, particularly men, who want to be married, talk about getting married and so forth, yet take no actionable steps with regards to pursuing any relationship. Even though these singles want to get married someday, they tend to delay marriage for selfish reasons.

After I read Dr. Mohler's comments I thought they were well reasoned and biblical, and he offered a necessary rebuked to a spirit of worldliness that I believe is a problematic issue among God's singles in Churches today. I fell into this attitude as a young man with lots of wrong headed thinking about relationships and my role as a man, so what Mohler stated resonated strong with what I had experienced as an immature believer in this area of my life and what I know other Christian singles have experienced and do experience now.

However, there were others on this board who thought Dr. Mohler was way out of line to make such comments. The initial detractor who posted Mohler's lecture, also posted his objections to what he stated by claiming Mohler's comments were irresponsible and reckless. He made this charge based upon the the fact that:

A) Mohler is not a pastor, and
B) Because Mohler isn't a pastor, he obviously has no experiencing pastoring singles, especially older singles, struggling with their singleness.

These type of comments, writes the poster, only serve to be hurtful to singles who desire to get married, yet God hasn't blessed them with a mate as of yet. I personally thought his objections were more emotional based, rather than dealing specifically with what Dr. Mohler was stating. I also thought he was presumptive toward Dr. Mohler to suggest that only pastors are really qualified to minister to struggling singles and seminary presidents should just keep their mouths shut about such things. Who is a seminary president to make such sweeping, baseless comments about a class of people who are a legitimate part of God's Church?

Our entire discussion can be accessed here to get a flavor of what the fellow was stating. SBC Popes and Superstars

I believe there are handful of areas of discussion

First, was Mohler out of line with his comments?

Do non-pastors have any place to make comments about the behavior and attitudes of people in the church? Let us say it was the Key Club treasurer making this comments in a Sunday school class he teaches as a layman.

What are your all thoughts about singles in today's church?

I am sure there are other areas we could explore, but those questions will be good to begin with. Any comments would be nice. Also, I appreciate when you all link up to relevant articles you may be aware of on the Internet. I welcome such recommendations, but it would also be nice for folks to dish out from their own food for thought, rather than just appealing to a well written article. I want to know what YOU have to say.

Fred

Fred,

The first thing that immediately came to mind was Aquila and Priscilla, who were not pastors, nor did they hold any official office in the church. Yet, this couple was teaching others about the things of God. (Acts 18:26) In fact, they are noted to be Paul's "helpers". (Rom 16:3)

The second thing that I wanted to write on this matter is that I have personally known a number of Pastors who have little or no actual experience living in the world. They were raised in Christian homes, attended Christian schools, went on to seminary right out of college and never worked in a secular job. Some even preened themselves that they had not been "tainted" by the world's influences. However, their ability to understand what the average believer must endure day in and day out is woefully lacking and their preaching and counsel reveals this lack of knowledge and consequently, they heap undue burdens upon the minds and souls of many.

The third and last thing that I think needs to be noted in contrast is that Dr. Mohler surely spent a reasonable time in his life as a single man and thus he does have some personal experience in this area. Additionally, it is the knowledge of Scripture and wisdom given to apply the Scriptures which is most important. When a man is ordained to the office of Pastor, this passage from layman to cleric doesn't include all knowledge and/or wisdom about all things. There are a number of laymen I know that would put many a Pastor to shame when it comes to knowledge of the Bible and being able to apply it to everyday life situations. Surely, Dr. Mohler is well-versed in the teachings of Scripture. I would hope that THIS would be the main criteria that is looked for should one choose to criticize one's "right" to give advice on any given subject. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/idea.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

A) I'm not sure that's ever a requirement to offer advice. His position at Southern Seminary is one of authority over many young people. This affords many opportunities to offer sound advice to many singles. I'd be more upset if my seminary president didn't offer his feelings on these matters.

B) I would be willing to wager that Dr. Mohler has spoken with plenty of young people during his life. He has also, more than likely, spoken with youth pastors and church pastors as well. I couldn't imagine that he gave terrible advice.

I would personally prefer a leader who says something out of true compassion than one who says nothing from fear of offending. Todays young people are becoming more liberal and worldly and perhaps Dr. Mohler just stepped on somebody's toes a bit?


God bless,

william

Mohler may not be a pastor but he surely is a teacher. Without having read the links you have provided yet I think the response to Mohler's comments reveal more than an emotive reaction. When he rebuked the spirit of worldliness I believe that hit a nerve. Many young people today want to get established in their careers, acquire financial wealth, and basically rise to the class level they want before making a committment to a life partner and raising a family. It reveals a self centered agenda which is common among Christians here in the USA.

The Apostle Paul had a lot to write on the topic of marriage even though he never married. I think it's wrong to try to disqualify him on that basis. We all benefit from his instruction.

Now I'll open the links you've provided and see if I can offer any comments.


Wes

Fred,

I've opened the links now. I agree with the comments you've made in the other forum. You hit the same nerve that Molher hit.

Another factor in our society today that influences the age of those who enter marriage is the high divorce rate. This can make even the most willing applicant a bit more cautious. I married my beloved wife forty years ago when I was 20 and she was 19. This was common in those days and many of my friends also married before they reached 21. However today as Mohler points out the average age of those entering marriage for the first time has risen significantly.

I think the most important factor effecting this trend is that the worldly culture of our day is having a great influence on our Christian young people. Instead of the church influencing the culture it's the other way around. This speaks volumes about the weak voice of the church and lack of a biblical worldview when it deals with marriage and social issues.


Wes

Mohler definitely has the authority to speak as he did. Although Pastors may be at the front end through their counseling, that fact does not negate Mohler's position in discussing those issues. As to the argument that it may be hurtful to certain singles, I think that argument is failing to take into account the spiritual maturity of those singles. When Pastors speak of God blessing of children, does that hurt those marrieds who are barren, and shouldn't be said. God's teachings are normative. Just because their are exceptions should not stop Christian leaders from teaching God's truth through His Word.


Is his observations on target? I think so. But, I would not place all the blame on the young men. Throughout their life, parents, the church, and society as a whole have reiterated the importance of them succeeding in a career and obtaining material possessions. Then throw in feminism with young women competing with them for that type of success. In some way men have become feminized in their attitudes in certain areas in life, especially in decision-making within the family.

As a personal note, I'm single. It would be nice to be married. No excuses except for timidity, plus I didn't become a Christian until my early 30s. However, I remember then that some eligible women I did meet made me hesitant in beginning a relationship-toward marriage because of their stating grand plans of getting this degree or some exciting plan of employment or location for their life. It made me hesitant in initiating a relationship because I didn't want to destroy those plans. I just wanted someone to come along with me, not being a cheerleader in their perfect life. I know that in most cases their dreams resembled mine, but why didn't they state it. Anyway, sorry for the personal note but it might shed some importance in this topic.

1. No, he was not out of line.

2. If not, then how could anyone but the pastor rebuke, reprove, exhort, etc. ever?

3. I agree with Mohler. I went to the conference called New Attitude held by Joshua Harris and C.J. Mahaney of Sovereign Grace Ministries, and took a class a few semesters ago taught by Dr. Mohler called Contemporary Issues in Theology and Culture or something like that, in which he taught a lot about modern sexuality, so I have some idea of what Mohler is talking about from what I remember. Basically, our physical human makeup suggests (not so subtly) that we're made to be one flesh with a member of the opposite sex. We are made to take part in the highest covenant and relationship between people there is, besides that which we have now in Christ. There is no biblical category for singleness apart from those few people that are set apart by God to glorify Him in constant service in a way more specialized than in the covenant of marriage and commitment of raising a family. I say "more specialized" rather than "more wholly" because "more wholly" would hint that celibacy is the more holy and godly way of life. It is not. God has made us male and female and marriage is the norm. Mohler says that our culture teaches men to prolong adolescence and put off marriage until we're ready to be "tied down", if ever. He says we have been raising our boys to be grown up boys when we should be raising them to be husbands, even fathers. In Christendom there is no place for even talking about sex without marriage since they are inseparable. I think Mohler just strikes a nerve because of the increasing number of older, single Christians. Mohler says the biblical criteria for being single is whether or not one thinks one can be celibate for life. If not, and one is able to get married, then by all means be obedient to God and get married. Also, if one is not in a position to be married but is not called to celibacy, work towards being in a position to get married. That means, in reference to Mohler's most frequent listeners, quit playing video games and dating casually and obey the Lord. There are many easy ways that boys (and girls) can work toward growing up to be faithful to God in the way he has made us to be. This will be in stark contrast to the warped sexuality of the world. Mohler says both men and women are guilty of the "sin of waiting", but men are more guilty in disregarding their responsibility to be leaders in the church and in the home. There's a lot more I could tell, but I don't remember much and I think I'm rambling. Anyway, I agree with everything Mohler has said on the subject.

Here's some material:
AlbertMohler.com

Check out the articles and resources pages.

Please pray for me and the other young single guys on the forum. I know my own situation isn't very good. I am a model of exactly what Dr. Mohler is talking about. Pray that everything that is necessary in order for me to be faithful to God in obedience would happen. It's extremely difficult not having had a Christian father, or one at all for that matter. I don't mean pray that I get a wife, but rather, that I start growing up.

Ben