Hi all, Well, I happen to be reading through a book my dad recently purchased, it's a book of quotes from Early Church Fathers (1st through 5th Centuries) about different doctrines and issues they faced in their days. I came across something odd. There's a section with quotes about Freedom of Choice, and I guess in my uneducated and simple mind it's just kinda confused me. There's several comments that sound very much like stuff reformed authors say today (Several quotes from Clement of Alexandria for example), but there were several quotes (especially but not solely from Justin Martyr)about God's love shown through freedom of choice. There were several quotes that seemed to suggest ideas I'd never heard outside of people labeled as Libertines, like everything (especially salvation) being dependant on man's freedom of choice.
So, in the early church, was there a debate about soteriology that I've never heard about or am does Freedom of Choice mean something completely and utterly different and unrelated to Free Will or what? I just find this really odd, since there are other quotes that are very calvinistic in their implications, and since it's obvious that Scripture would back up a Reformed approach to Scripture.
I apologize for my late response, I had a malfunction when I tried to post earlier this week and it's been an incredibly unorganized and therefore busy week.
The book is called, "A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs" with a subtitle of, "A Reference Guid to More Than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers", David W. Bercot, Editor.
I in no way necessarily endorse the book or the editor, but I do find it curious that these quotes lie therein and I wonder if they're being presented out of context or if I'm just misunderstanding them.
Once you wrote his name I knew it was the person I had read before. Bercot is a real character, he is one of those guys that promotes a "return to apostolic Christianity". Typically what this means is that he feels that once you get past 311 AD the church as a group was corrupted by Constantine and those that followed him. He promotes the idea of remnant communities within the church or just out side. So the Donatists, Novatianists, Nestorians, Waldensians, Lollards,and the Anabaptists are all members of the uncompromising Christianity. Here is a link to a critique of Bercot's first work Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up. Will the Unreal Scholar Please Sit Down?
Take this man with a whole salt cellar of salt.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Bro. Luke, Regardless of the credibility of the author of the book, your question is a good one. Did early church fathers disagree about aspects of soteriology? The answer is, not really. The truth is that what would become the Calvinist false-concept of Predestination did not even come into existence until Augustine. Even then, it was quite as corrupt as Calvin made it. Yes, there were some sentiments of the absaluteness of God's grace, but cannot be confused with Calvinism. Neither the early church fathers, nor the majority of the reformers held to any such thing.
Welcome to the board, Hebron. Could you please offer evidence of your assertion besides mere opinion?
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"We confess the election to life and the predestination of the wicked to damnation." Council of Valence, Mansi, 15:4
"He fulfills what he wills, properly using even evil things as if the very best to the damnation of those whom he has justly predestined to punishment." Augustine, Enchridion 26 {100} (FC 3:454; PL 40.279)
"Predestination is twofold: either of the elect to rest or of the reprobate to death" Isidore of Seville, Sententiarium Libri tres 2.6 (PL 83.606)
"It belongs to God's justice that he divides, and to his power that he divides according to his will" Ambrose, Letter 20 (FC 26:108)
"Paul is here attributing to the Holy Spirit what he earlier attributed to all three persons. Because they are of one nature and power, the Three do what the One does. There is only one God, whose grace is distributed to individuals as he wishes, not according to the merits of any particular person but for the upbuilding of his church. All those things which the world wants to imitate but cannot, because it is carnal, may be seen in the church, which is the house of God, where they are granted by the gift and instruction of the Holy Spirit." Ambrosiaster; Paul's Epistles (CSEL 81.135)
"Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognize the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. >From him also our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, "Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven." All these, therefore, were highly honored, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." Clement of Rome, First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, 32 (ANF1 I, p. 13)
Hey Hebron, Welcome to the board and all, You responded:
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Did early church fathers disagree about aspects of soteriology? The answer is, not really.
(Fred) I hope you provide some historical examples of what you mean. There are eras of Church "fathers," so it would be helpful to place historical comments in the proper perspective. For example, there is not a whole lot of writing on an official Christian capacity before Nicea, simply because Christians could not meet publicly to discuss theology and affirm Christian doctrine.
By the way, I noticed on your info page that you like Leroy Forlines as a favored author. I take it that you come from a Free-Will Baptist background? James, Leroy's son, pastored my family's hometown church, Allen's Chapel, for several years, and I was a good friend with him.
Fred
"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns
