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#19995
Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:06 PM
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Matthew 22 14"For many are called, but few are chosen."
yet
Romans 8 28And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
How exactly do these work together?
Romans 8:29 (in Arminian): For whom He foreknew, He also [foreknew] to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
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reformed yevot said: How exactly do these work together? [color:"purple"]PERFECTLY![/color]
simul iustus et peccator
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Thanks!!!
but how can many be called yet only few be chosen, but at the same time, all who are called are justified?
Romans 8:29 (in Arminian): For whom He foreknew, He also [foreknew] to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
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I'll let others who are more capable explain it in detail; but the calling in Matthew 22 speaks of a general calling to all whereas the calling in Romans 8 speaks of an irresistible grace (the Spirit's effective call).
John Chaney
"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
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John C has provided the short answer and is right on the money. If you want to learn more about these different kinds of calling you may want to read the articles below. There is a "general call" which goes out to all mankind and there is an "effectual call" which only true believers receive and is a gift from God. In this article by John Piper he writes about: Irresistible Grace"When a person hears a preacher call for repentance he can resist that call. But if God gives him repentance he cannot resist because the gift is the removal of resistance. Not being willing to repent is the same as resisting the Holy Spirit. So if God gives repentance it is the same as taking away the resistance. This is why we call this work of God "irresistible grace". There's also a good article by Paul Helm here on the-Highway that should help clear this up for you. It's entitled The Call That Brings a ResponseI hope you find them helpful. Wes <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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Along with Wes's two articles I'd like to add a couple more on the subject of "Irresistible Grace": 1) Irresistible Grace, by John Murray 2) Efficacious Grace, by Loraine Boettner
simul iustus et peccator
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What is God's method of reaching the vast multitudes who have never heard the gospel. Is the "no excuse" of romans one the means? And if so, do those that have heard the gospel numerous times get a better shot at salvation than those afore mentioned who have never heard the "how shall they then hear if we do not preach" (I'm tired, so that is the equivalent of loose translations that I do not like--be patient)
gil
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gnarley said:
What is God's method of reaching the vast multitudes who have never heard the gospel. God's main method is through the preaching of the word. That's why we read: "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? (Romans 10: 14,15) That's why Paul tells us in Romans 10:17 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."gnarley said:
Is the "no excuse" of romans one the means? And if so, do those that have heard the gospel numerous times get a better shot at salvation than those afore mentioned who have never heard the "how shall they then hear if we do not preach" "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." (Romans 1:20) The quote in Romans 1:20 is referring to the forensic evidence that God exists and that mankind is without excuse because God is revealed through the visible medium of creation. All people are naturally inclined to some form of religion, yet they fail to worship their Creator, whose general revelation makes Him universally known. Sinful egoism and aversion to our Creator's claims have driven humanity into idolatry, the error of giving worship and homage to any other power or object other than God (See Is. 44:9-20; Rom. 1:21-23; and Col. 3:5). God will not allow human beings to suppress entirely their sense of God and His judgment. Some sense of right and wrong, as well as of accountability to God, always remains. Even in the fallen world everyone is endowed with a conscience that from time to time condemns them, telling them that they ought to suffer for wrongs they have done. When conscience speaks in these terms it speaks with the voice of God. In one sense, fallen humanity does not know God, since what people believe about the objects of their worship falsifies and distorts the truth about God. In another sense all human beings do know God, but in guilt, with uncomfortable inklings of the judgment they cannot avoid. Only the gospel of Christ can speak peace to this aspect of the human condition. So they must hear the gospel for it is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes. Wes (I've included some notes from my Geneva Study Bible in my reply)
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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